Author Topic: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.  (Read 917 times)

Dave_C

  • Trying to get rid of my belly... and failing!
Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« on: June 29, 2020, 11:15:30 am »
I have an old Shimano PD-M540 pedal stuck on my Stronglight crank arm.

It is all disassembled but for the pedal. I have an Aldi Workzone Hex set, but the hex key which fits the pedal had been rounded, when I put the crank on the garage floor (on carpet) and applied pressure to untighten the pedal by standing on the hex key. I had already given the pedal interface a few squirts of GT85 but it appears stuck fast.

I know if I heat the aluminium crank arm it will expand the crank arm but I'm not sure it this will damage the crank arm.

Any suggestions? Or do I write it off and Chuck in the bin.

I have a newer Stronglight impact crankset which I could keep the newer rings for in a few years when they begin to wear out.

Cheers, Dave C

Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk

@DaveCrampton < wot a twit.
http://veloviewer.com/athlete/421683/

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2020, 11:22:41 am »
A hot air gun or boiling water won't affect an aluminium crank. Stick the crank and pedal in the freezer overnight and then drop it into boiling water for a short period, then try to undo it.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2020, 11:25:50 am »
Are there any spanner flats on the pedal? I always find a pedal spanner more effective than an Allen key

Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2020, 11:27:31 am »
Am I correct in saying that the pedal doesn't have flats for a spanner, and also that the rounded bit is the tool, and the hex interface in the pedal is still good?

I don't rate GT85 as a penetrating fluid, I find Plus Gas much more effective. Personally, if possible, I would put the crank arm in a vice, and use a good quality hex key with a tube over the end for leverage. That way, you can put one hand on the top of the hex key to try to avoid it jumping out. It's possible to do the same with the floor and a wall, but you run the risk of punching the wall when the hex key moves. Also, you have to be sure that you are turning it the correct way - pedals have different threads depending on which side of the bike they are on.

Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2020, 11:30:27 am »
Agree with Deano. Until I bought a Park Tool pedal spanner which is about a foot long, removing pedals was a pain. Now pedals quake when they see me approaching with it, and now they virtually remove themselves *
* I am exaggerating, a bit.
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

Dave_C

  • Trying to get rid of my belly... and failing!
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2020, 11:32:35 am »
Hi,

Yes rounded tool. No, no flats or the spanners would have come out.

I'm looking for a decent hex key. Most come in sets.

Wish I'd been more liberal with the copper slip now.

I have a vice but gripping the crank arm without it slipping out is tricky.

The freezer sounds like the next step.

I'll Google Plus Gas. Sounds like a BBQ fuel.

Cheers all.

Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk

@DaveCrampton < wot a twit.
http://veloviewer.com/athlete/421683/

Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2020, 11:34:46 am »
Plusgas is PDG. They sell it at Boyes down here, dunno where you'd get it locally.

Dave_C

  • Trying to get rid of my belly... and failing!
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2020, 11:35:58 am »
Cheers Deano *

Screwfix has it.

* Deano autocorrects to Frank, then Dani...

Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk

@DaveCrampton < wot a twit.
http://veloviewer.com/athlete/421683/

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2020, 12:43:11 pm »
Hi,

Yes rounded tool. No, no flats or the spanners would have come out.

I'm looking for a decent hex key. Most come in sets.

Googling "8mm Allen key" gives you this Park 8mm Allen key on Wiggle.

Buy it
Get a piece of piping
Stick it over the key to extend it
Don't buy Aldi Allen keys in the future
Your uncle is called Robert.

robgul

  • Cycle:End-to-End webmaster
  • . . cyclist, Cytech accredited
    • Cycle:End-to-End
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2020, 12:49:21 pm »
Short term, maybe worth a try - saw off the rounded part of the Aldi hex key to get a better fit.

.... and if you have a bench vice - wrap the crank in some rag and clamp it horizontally in the jaws, with the pedal facing donwards (i.e. the hex orifice uppermost) - you then get both hands to pull on the hex key

Rob

Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2020, 01:01:38 pm »
What about sticking the allen key in the vice with the long end in the pedal and using the crank as the lever?

Making sure to turn it the right way.
Miles cycled 2014 = 3551.5 (Target 7300 :()
Miles cycled 2013 = 6141.4
Miles cycled 2012 = 4038.1

Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2020, 01:07:35 pm »
PD-M540 = no spanner flats on the pedal spindle =  stupid design = I won't buy these pedals.

If you have these pedals it is imperative that they are removed from the cranks regularly (at least once every six months) regreased/copper-eased and refitted.

If you want the best chance of removing these pedals there are three steps;

1) get a tool that fits the 8mm hex socket in the pedals properly. This  might be a clever allen key (e.g. a Wera one) or it could be a modified torx bit which is ground to size and then fitted into the socket as a light interference fit.

2) disassemble the pedal so that heat can be used without wrecking the pedal. The bearing retaining sleeve can be undone and the pedal body removed, leaving just the bearings and sleeve on the spindle. The bearings can be dismantled and the sleeve removed, leaving just the bare spindle. The retaining sleeve contains a rubber seal that is otherwise likely to be damaged when heat is used.

3) use heat on the crank end.  A hot air gun is good. Repeat hot/cold cycles whilst the area is flooded with oil helps the corrosion product to dry out (lose water; it is invariably heavily hydrated which makes it swell and grip the pedal spindle) and the oil to penetrate. If you keep the temperature in the crank end  no greater than ~250C it won't damage an aluminium crank .

Especially if you are holding the tool in a bench vice and turning the crank, be very sure that you are turning the correct direction (LH pedal = LH thread) and have at it.

Last resort is to sacrifice the pedal spindle  eg by grinding flats (or a hex) onto it and then holding it using appropriate tools. A new spindle assembly is cheaper than a new set of pedals (just).

cheers

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2020, 01:39:54 pm »
Wouldn't alu slip be better than copper slip?

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2020, 01:55:32 pm »
Also if you have a half inch wrench (or 3/8) halfords (spit) and get a hex socket of the right size.  If you get a halfords pro tool, it comes with a unlimited lifetime guarantee.

tiermat

  • According to Jane, I'm a Unisex SpaceAdmin
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2020, 02:07:29 pm »
For future reference, remove the pedal _before_ removing the crank from the bike. BTDTGTTS.
I feel like Captain Kirk, on a brand new planet every day, a little like King Kong on top of the Empire State

Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2020, 02:28:41 pm »
if the pedal is badly stuck there is a pretty fair chance the crank will have to come off the bike anyway. I would only leave it on the bike if I didn't have a bench vice to use. This goes double for PD-M540 because there are no pedal spanner flats and access to the fitting is not very good when the crank is still on the bike.

Once the crank is off the bike repeat hot/cold cycles are easier and the crank can be oriented so that oil will penetrate the threads better. Dunking a warm crank into paraffin (which then penetrates the threads) etc etc is also possible.

If you don't have a bench vice and the crank is off the bike, you can stand on the pedal (on a piece of wood) and use a flex-headed breaker bar on a square drive tool in the hex fitting. The flex head can be used to bring the handle back into the plane of the crank so that there is no cam-out torque. You can turn the crank (esp if LH) or the tool by simply standing on it.  This is  often both better and easier than when the crank is still on the bike IMHO.

cheers

Dave_C

  • Trying to get rid of my belly... and failing!
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2020, 07:23:33 pm »
Thanks all again.

I have bought Screwfix's own penetrating oil and given it a good squirt. I'll give it another squirt later and then try again.

I did try Brucey's advice before, standing on the pedal and then standing on the hex key whilst it was in the pedal spindle. The hex key was very springy but I was nervous it would pop out. In the end the hex key rounded. I have a grinder and might try taking off the rounded end as suggested further up.

Failing that, I'll bin the lot. The pedals are old and so is the crank. It is surplus as I have fitted a newer Stronglight Impact and pedals to it.

Thanks again

Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk

@DaveCrampton < wot a twit.
http://veloviewer.com/athlete/421683/

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2020, 11:50:50 pm »
Ffs just buy a new, harder, longer key.  They're a fiver!

Tim Hall

  • I want to eat the fleeting shade of your lashes
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2020, 12:00:24 am »
What about sticking the allen key in the vice with the long end in the pedal and using the crank as the lever?

Making sure to turn it the right way.
The bold bit is important. One of the cranks, the left one, will have a left hand thread.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2020, 12:04:10 am »
Ffs just buy a new, harder, longer key.  They're a fiver!

Or buy a set of Wera ones.  They're several fivers, but they're purdy...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2020, 02:57:01 pm »
For future reference, remove the pedal _before_ removing the crank from the bike. BTDTGTTS.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

mmmmartin

  • BPB 1/1: PBP 0/1
    • FNRttC
Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2020, 04:06:14 pm »
If any else fails, before binning it try a camping stove, preferably one burning propane/butane mix, and heat it until it is within an inch of its life, like about 10 minutes. Let it cool then do it again, then have a go at it. That's what I did, it worked.
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2020, 06:15:28 pm »
If the pedals scrap anyway, I've got a method that hasn't failed me yet.

Remove crank with attached pedal from the bike.

Remove all parts of the pedal platform leaving just the spindle in the crank arm.

Use an angle grinder to put flats on pedal spindle.

Clamp pedal spindle in bench vice, gripping on the flats.

Securely attach a 1 metre length of 2" by 2" timber to the crank arm using anything you can find in the workshop. Big bolt through centre hole in the crank is a start, G clamps, several toestraps, zip ties, any or all of those at once.

Ensure that you're going to move the crank arm/ timber assembly in the correct direction.

Gently lean on the timber until the crank arm starts to rotate.

Remove timber and assembly and continue the unscrewing using just the crank arm.
I don't want to grow old gracefully. I want to grow old disgracefully.

Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2020, 07:11:42 pm »
This is close to Cudzoziemiec's thread, on which I am the latest sufferer of this issue. I'm still soaking mine in PlusGas (it's out there now with the latest dose). I may yet get out my (lookalike) Primus stove ;D

Re: Advice sought, remove Pedal from crank arm.
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2020, 11:01:41 pm »
Clamp pedal spindle in bench vice, gripping on the flats..

If you put enough torque through the crank, doesn't clamping a narrow piece put you at risk of breaking the bench vice? ISTR people trashing vices by clamping a freewheel removal.tool and using the rim as leverage.