Author Topic: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when/if ill?  (Read 1883 times)

slope

  • Ride Fettle Ride
    • Current pedalable joys
Is there a practical protocol to alert specific difficult to find up the end of rural mountain track locations?

No mobile coverage for at least 3.5 miles in the shortest southwestern direction and up to 8 or 10 miles the other way.

The cops seem to have their own network which obviously works here in the valley

I have a printed label above me back door with Longitude and Latitude coordinates + 5 digit OS map references

I also have an iPhone which pinpoints my GPS location should I wish to share it (able to use iPhone through internet wi-fi calling/broadband)

If one was ill and in need of emergency aid - it might not be possible to give long winded complicated vocal directions

Any advice from the knowledgeable and kindly YACF foundation?

ps this might bring up what 3 words and its particular issues ::-)


Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2020, 08:07:29 pm »
ps this might bring up what 3 words and its particular issues ::-)

Well, that would have been my suggestion  :-\

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2020, 08:08:52 pm »
Landline / VOIP phone with an appropriate address registered with the provider for emergency services location purposes?

Anecdotally, they seem to be able to cope with this better than they can with coordinates.

Regardless, they're going to want an address including postcode before they progress to the next line of their script.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2020, 08:35:12 pm »
Your post code is a very good starting place when fed into their systems.  I find that I can type any address that I have been given into Google maps and it magically finds it.  I would presume that the emergency services have various bits of tech at their disposal.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2020, 08:40:49 pm »
Postcodes cover a uselessly wide area in rural areas thobut.  Not that it stops the emergency services from defaulting to them as a preferred means of specifying location, so you're going to want to give them that so they can work out the problem for themselves, rather than wasting time trying to pre-empt it.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2020, 08:44:24 pm »
Make sure you have an obvious, legible sign at the end of your drive.
Seems to be a lot of houses around here missing any sort of sign. I wonder how they get anything delivered.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2020, 08:45:12 pm »
Make sure you have an obvious, legible sign at the end of your drive.
Seems to be a lot of houses around here missing any sort of sign. I wonder how they get anything delivered.

The knowlege is safely stored in the postie's BRANES
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2020, 08:47:10 pm »
Problem with postcodes is that if you are a passer-by in a location which is not your home, how the hell are you supposed to know the local postcode?

Also, why do most phones not have the native ability to display the WGS84 ( or any other co-ordinate reference system ) location from their GPS without using additional apps?

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2020, 08:50:16 pm »
Problem with postcodes is that if you are a passer-by in a location which is not your home, how the hell are you supposed to know the local postcode?

I had this very discussion with an ambulance service 999 operator, offered them a grid ref in the coordinate system of their choice, told them the road numbers that we were a short distance from the intersection of, and when none of that seemed to help, eventually managed to satisfy them by walking a few hundred metres and being able to read the name of a nearby farm.

This did not fill me with confidence if the situation had been more serious than a suspected broken hip.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2020, 09:02:09 pm »
If your up a mountain track. Do you have a local mountain rescue? If so I'd be tempted to ring them or if the police have a system ring them and let them use whatever systems they use or local knowledge to guide the ambulance in. I'd also be tempted to have a local list so you can ring say someone in the farmhouse in the village who can ring the ambulance or be at the end of the track. A friend of mine who is a scout leader had to ring an ambulance to a fairly remote location so dispatched someone with a landy and flashy lights to the nearest road to guide them in

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2020, 10:44:27 pm »
If you're at home it's not going to be such a big problem. You already have the label with lat/long and grid ref, add post code and, yes, what3words (just in case!) to it. And a description of route from nearest main road. Given them whatever they ask for. It's when it happens elsewhere you're in trouble.
This ain't really your life, ain't nothing but a movie
Ain't nothing but a badly written novel

Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2020, 01:40:37 am »
Garmin inReach Mini or similar locator beacon/satellite communicator? These are subscription based devices that use communication satellites to contact a private. dispatching service, which in turn contacts your local emergency services and gives them your GPS coordinates. The best of these (Garmin inReach devices, iMO) pair with your smartphone and let you text back and forth with the dispatch service and with local emergency services, which is useful when describing the nature or location of the emergency. You can also use these devices to contact anyone with an e-mail address or mobile phone, which is nice when the situation doesn't call for emergency services. The big caveat is that, if you are under tree cover or at a low point between mountains, it can take a long time to pick up a satellite signal. Not cheap, but they are useful.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2020, 04:30:40 pm »
Is there a practical protocol to alert specific difficult to find up the end of rural mountain track locations?

No mobile coverage for at least 3.5 miles in the shortest southwestern direction and up to 8 or 10 miles the other way.

The cops seem to have their own network which obviously works here in the valley

I have a printed label above me back door with Longitude and Latitude coordinates + 5 digit OS map references

I also have an iPhone which pinpoints my GPS location should I wish to share it (able to use iPhone through internet wi-fi calling/broadband)

If one was ill and in need of emergency aid - it might not be possible to give long winded complicated vocal directions

Any advice from the knowledgeable and kindly YACF foundation?

ps this might bring up what 3 words and its particular issues ::-)

Have you spoken to:
a) Your GP about service access
b) Your Local Ambulance Provider
c) Mountain Rescue (because inevitably they'll probably get involved if it's as remote as you say)

Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2020, 04:46:34 pm »
As an aside I notice premier inn are now putting what3words locators in the “how to find us” for each hotel.


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slope

  • Ride Fettle Ride
    • Current pedalable joys
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2020, 05:04:02 pm »
Thanks folks for your suggestions.

The postcode (the centre of which is a mile away) covers at least 30 spread out rural properties and is of no use to couriers.

Access off of the main road is difficult and long winded to verbally explain at the best of times. The end of my track is shared with 2 other properties and initially involves using a narrow private lane belonging to an "Outdoor Educational Centre" owned and run by a distant and different country's Borough Council.

Signage isn't really practical. It would involve several at various junctions and would require permission from those further down the track.

One of my neighbours is a volunteer with the local Mountain Rescue team - I will collar him and ask advice

I guess I was hoping there was some way of using mobile iPhone location technology (as mentioned, without actual mobile coverage - but with WiFi Calling and my FTTP broadband connection)

Personally, the advantages of living here are difficult to over egg its blissful pudding/location :)

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2020, 01:42:52 am »
For mobile phones, it should use Advanced Mobile Location when you dial 999. This automatically gets your location from GPS/wifi, and sends it as a text message, as soon as you dial 999. So the 999 operator should be able to access that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Mobile_Location
The Android version is Emergency Location Services. They say it can work for wifi calling. https://crisisresponse.google/emergencylocationservice/faqs/

Also you could make sure it is all mapped accurately on OpenStreetMap, including housenames, numbers, driveways etc.
Then tell anyone to use that if they want to find you. Seems to be a few couriers using OSM now, eg Amazon.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2020, 07:36:02 am »
Garmin inReach Mini or similar locator beacon/satellite communicator? These are subscription based devices that use communication satellites to contact a private. dispatching service, which in turn contacts your local emergency services and gives them your GPS coordinates. The best of these (Garmin inReach devices, iMO) pair with your smartphone and let you text back and forth with the dispatch service and with local emergency services, which is useful when describing the nature or location of the emergency. You can also use these devices to contact anyone with an e-mail address or mobile phone, which is nice when the situation doesn't call for emergency services. The big caveat is that, if you are under tree cover or at a low point between mountains, it can take a long time to pick up a satellite signal. Not cheap, but they are useful.

I was going to say the same. Assuming you're not underground or in a metal box hitting the magic button on am inreach should provide pin point accuracy. But it's worth noting that the sequence of events goes something like:

- magic button pressed.
- signal sent via satellite (may take a minute or two to lock on)
- message received at GAOS centre in the US.
- message sent back "what's up?"
- operator looks at the location, looks up number of local agency to contact.
- operator contacts local party in the UK. If no reply to the what's up message has been received, they are likely to have to make an assumption on what care you need. That may mean a cop comes to look at you, who then calls an ambulance. Or they may send everything they can. What you get is anyone's guess. It also relies on the person answering the phone in the UK believing that someone calling from an operations centre in the US is real, and being able to translate the info provided (lat + long + name + any info provided in reply).

In short. It will work. It may not be fast. If you are FAST positive, or sitting in a w position having had 300mg of aspirin, i would have hoped for a fixed landline to make the call on if there's a road to where i am...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2020, 09:26:28 am »
I think it's also worth noting that the ambulance control teams and ambulance teams are used to finding people in remote places.  Ambulance teams get to know their 'patches' and rural teams are less likely to be moved around than urban teams.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

slope

  • Ride Fettle Ride
    • Current pedalable joys
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2020, 07:58:08 pm »
For mobile phones, it should use Advanced Mobile Location when you dial 999. This automatically gets your location from GPS/wifi, and sends it as a text message, as soon as you dial 999. So the 999 operator should be able to access that.

 :thumbsup: Must remember to use mobile phone instead of landline in emergencies

I think it's also worth noting that the ambulance control teams and ambulance teams are used to finding people in remote places.  Ambulance teams get to know their 'patches' and rural teams are less likely to be moved around than urban teams.

:thumbsup: Good point - what partly prompted this post was seeing a departing night time ambulance, which had presumably attended a neighbour pass by on the track back towards the main road

Also good to realise the ambulance driver and tall box like vehicle wasn't phased by the narrow track (with a seriously deep vertiginous gulley to alleviate the all too often deluges off the mountain behind) and it was able to cope with several low overhanging tree boughs!

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when ill?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2020, 08:05:27 pm »
For mobile phones, it should use Advanced Mobile Location when you dial 999. This automatically gets your location from GPS/wifi, and sends it as a text message, as soon as you dial 999. So the 999 operator should be able to access that.

 :thumbsup: Must remember to use mobile phone instead of landline in emergencies

If it's a landline, the provider will have recorded its location in a database that the emergency services automatically have access to.  (Also now possible for VOIP services, but I'd be wary of trusting it.)

Whether they're better at understanding location information in format A from service X or format B from service Y is anyone's guess, but my limited anecdotal experience is that the London fire brigade immediately asked me if I was near $neighbouring_road (where the fire was) when I called on a BT landline, but whoever is responsible for ambulances in Derbyshire desperately wanted a postcode for a bit of rural road when called from a mobile.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

You have to feel for the hiker who died in Maine
at ///mistake.alarm.sorry


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quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
You have to feel for the hiker who died in Maine
at ///mistake.alarm.sorry

Dunno, Gravity must be weird there, it's near Lagrange...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

You have to feel for the hiker who died in Maine
at ///mistake.alarm.sorry

Dunno, Gravity must be weird there, it's near Lagrange...

J
I have lost all power, I am sinking. Please send help. I am at alien.probe.location. Click.brrrrrr


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quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
I have lost all power, I am sinking. Please send help. I am at alien.probe.location. Click.brrrrrr


Not far to swim to shore...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

How to direct an ambulance to a VERY remote rural property when/if ill?
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2020, 06:21:54 am »
I have lost all power, I am sinking. Please send help. I am at alien.probe.location. Click.brrrrrr


Not far to swim to shore...

J
My new hobby is looking for comical what3words locations. I am spending hours.pure.hoping to find a good one.


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