Author Topic: Garmin withdrawal and frustration  (Read 2084 times)

Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2020, 09:37:27 am »
From what I read 'planes with Garmin equipment couldn't download maps (which included updated flight paths) or file flight plans (which the Garmin system managed). Therefore 'planes equipped with that equipment (many of which are private jets) could not fly.

I don't think any commercial airlines were affected, it was more the privateer or amateur.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2020, 09:49:11 am »
The problem seems to come with the more fitness-oriented devices tying you into their web service as a means of extracting it.  Which is a compelling argument not to buy them.

Well, I'm pleased to say that it was very easy to extract the data from this evening's run from my FR620 and upload it to Strava, despite the GC app still being down.

Eh? It's been back up all day for me. The app does say there's maintenance going on but it doesn't seem to stop me using most of the functions.

The website has been fine all day too.

Most things are working: https://connect.garmin.com/status/

It's just some bits like syncing a workout onto a device that is still not working (Ironically I wanted to do that today after not needing to for 11 months...).

Seemed to depend which browser I used, might be a cache thing, but I don't see why?
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2020, 09:50:20 am »
From what I read 'planes with Garmin equipment couldn't download maps (which included updated flight paths) or file flight plans (which the Garmin system managed). Therefore 'planes equipped with that equipment (many of which are private jets) could not fly.

I don't think any commercial airlines were affected, it was more the privateer or amateur.
Garmin do not make equipment for commercial jets, although they are trying to break into that market. Their G1000 and G2000 systems are aimed at private light aircraft, and aircraft of that size that may be used for air taxi work. Only the smallest and cheapest exec jet type aircraft would use these systems. While it's probable that they will have temporarily lost the ability to update their navigation databases, these are only updated monthly, and the loss of one month's updates is unlikely to be critical (nav databases have 'use by' date which will overlap the next update by a significant amount). Of course, there are several other sources of this information which may be used instead. The devices can be programmed directly (exactly as your Edge 1030 can), and do not need to be programmed via an app that may be invalidated by server outages.

Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2020, 09:55:56 am »
Here's one of the articles I read:-

https://www.wired.com/story/garmin-outage-ransomware-attack-workouts-aviation/

Also: https://twitter.com/GarminAviation/status/1286300542050996230

"
We are currently experiencing an outage that affects the Garmin Pilot App and as a result, some services, such as flight plan filing, may be unavailable. (1/2)
"
...
"
You may continue to use Garmin Pilot in flight. This outage also affects our call centers, and we are currently unable to receive any calls, emails or online chats. We are working to resolve this issue as quickly as possible and apologize for this inconvenience. (2/2)
"
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2020, 10:02:40 am »
Yes, well, that's basically saying exactly what I said. Flight plans can be filed in several different ways, and do not need a Garmin app. The devices themselves continue to work as normal, exactly as your Edge does.

Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2020, 11:01:36 am »
Yes, well, that's basically saying exactly what I said. Flight plans can be filed in several different ways, and do not need a Garmin app. The devices themselves continue to work as normal, exactly as your Edge does.

I was just providing a link to my source and, yes, I should have probably put "some 'planes" rather than making it sound like all Garmin equipped 'planes were grounded.

But it wasn't so much about the inflight equipment but rather the Garmin Pilot app (that was affected) that some/many people use to file flight plans. Yes there were workarounds but they're cumbersome and many people just stayed on the ground rather than working around them. Plus a couple of people did get hit by not having up to date mapping as they hadn't updated their maps in long enough for it to be a problem (unsurprising given current pandemic situation).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2020, 11:31:49 am »
I've never seen or used Garmin Pilot, so I can't really comment on that. As far as I'm aware, the CAA online flight planning tools have been available throughout the crisis, though most sport/leisure aviation facilities were of course closed like everything else. I'm not surprised some people didn't update their nav data - but I have to say I suspect that at least some of those wouldn't even in normal times! I would hope that most are on subscription, but I appreciate that's expensive for a private user.

Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2020, 12:45:57 pm »
I am sure that the majority of small aircraft we have flown around key and Zambia in did not have subscriptions or upto date services.  The actual garmin instrument looked older than the pilot generally!

I think the Maldivian flying boats probably did have a subscription, but equally concerning was the pilot taking off his footwear to fly the plane!

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2020, 12:56:12 am »
I am sure that the majority of small aircraft we have flown around key and Zambia in did not have subscriptions or upto date services.  The actual garmin instrument looked older than the pilot generally!

I think the Maldivian flying boats probably did have a subscription, but equally concerning was the pilot taking off his footwear to fly the plane!

One must be comfortable. I very often took my shoes off at top of climb and only replaced them when it was time to leave the aeroplane!

Edit: my socks were always a signature item!

Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2020, 01:08:21 pm »
Generally they had flip-flops with bare feet.

Descending over Zambia Malawi region as the wind was too strong higher up was an amazing ride. Could see the villages, animals. Everything.

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #60 on: July 30, 2020, 03:03:35 pm »
Quote
For me Garmin Pay is a waste of time in the UK.  Apple and Google have almost universal coverage and even Samsung have a far better reach than Garmin.
In use I've never had a problem with it as a payment method, other than my Vivoactive 3 ending my activity and starting a new one at the time it's used for payment. :facepalm:

Santander seem to be the only major bank that will work with GP though, along with some of the Fintech Challenger banks. I suppose in that way I was lucky, as I had a couple cards that I could use with it. Looking at alternatives for watches, then I would guess Apple, Google and Samsung have the widest number of banks that work with them. The FitBit Pay system is if anything even more restricted than the Garmin one.
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #61 on: July 30, 2020, 03:09:01 pm »
Quote
For me Garmin Pay is a waste of time in the UK.  Apple and Google have almost universal coverage and even Samsung have a far better reach than Garmin.
In use I've never had a problem with it as a payment method, other than my Vivoactive 3 ending my activity and starting a new one at the time it's used for payment. :facepalm:

Santander seem to be the only major bank that will work with GP though, along with some of the Fintech Challenger banks. I suppose in that way I was lucky, as I had a couple cards that I could use with it. Looking at alternatives for watches, then I would guess Apple, Google and Samsung have the widest number of banks that work with them. The FitBit Pay system is if anything even more restricted than the Garmin one.

I think HSBC of my banks uses Garmin Pay but I am looking to close that account 8n the not too distant future.  If I was with Santander then fine but unfortunately not.

And my main bank has gone by yet anither route.

I will have to change my banking arrangements before I need to replace my wearable I guess.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #62 on: July 30, 2020, 03:41:56 pm »
I'm thinking about opening an account with Starling, they support Garmin Pay, seem to be pretty good.
Or Boon have a simple prepaid card.

I think it makes sense to keep it separate from my main bank account anyway. Less risk of losing all of my money if I lose my watch.

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #63 on: July 30, 2020, 04:04:38 pm »
I like to have two current accounts running, so that one bank's systems falling over doesn't cause me to be stuck with no access to money. When I was cycling D2D in 2018, TSB's system went down and locked everyone out. I think you could still use the cards at the time, but I'm not sure. I wouldn't have liked to have been stuck mid-tour without access.

Starling works well. Revolut are another I've tried which has also been fine IME.

With the Vivoactive, at least, you need to enter a PIN before it will do anything, so in some ways it's more secure (and less convenient) than a normal contactless card. IIRC, the 'card' then stays unlocked until the watch can't find a heartbeat, (which hopefully means you've taken it off rather than you're heart has stopped :o)


Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustratio
« Reply #64 on: July 30, 2020, 04:24:29 pm »
 I tried to add my Barclaycard to my watch when I got,it, but it said it wasn’t supported. I wasn’t that bothered because I generally use Apple Pay via my phone and I’ve nearly always got that with me, even when running.
If I’d been that bothered about paying with my watch i would have got an Apple Watch, but they’re not round so I’m glad I wasn’t bothered.  8)
Sorting my life out, one shed at a time.

Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #65 on: August 04, 2020, 07:27:57 am »
Here's a link that suggests Garmin paid the ransom.


http://news.sky.com/story/garmin-paid-m ... s-12041468

Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #66 on: August 04, 2020, 08:43:02 am »
I'm not particularly bothered to be honest.  Garmin has to keep it's huge customer and user base onside and needs to return to business as usual as quickly as possible.   I expected them to pay.

What this is a stark reminder of though for both tech companies and their customers is that the data is never 100% secure.  Who knows how close the hackers got for instance to Garmin Pay information?  Who knows how close they got to customer details including for instance payment information where customers buy services directly from Garmin.

I still expect there to be a huge bank hack at some point proving that our reliance upon online banking and contactless payments only increases our risk of personal fraud and potential loss.

Hopefully Garmin and all their competitors will be working extra hard to protect and secure their systems going forward.

Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #67 on: August 04, 2020, 09:54:38 am »
There is a lot more bank hacking going on than is every acknowledged. One of the primary reasons that banks settle many fraud cases without much hassle is to bolster confidence in online banking and credit card usage. Banks do not want a return to cash; it’s expensive to handle, easy to take out of their hands and difficult to justify charges levied. Cashless systems on the other hand can be largely automated, are easy to analyse and easy to justify charges.

If the general populace realised just how easy it is to spoof card details there would be an outcry and a wholesale rejection of the system.
Sorting my life out, one shed at a time.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #68 on: August 04, 2020, 12:40:19 pm »
What this is a stark reminder of though for both tech companies and their customers is that the data is never 100% secure.

It was pretty secure once the ransomware encrypted it all...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #69 on: August 04, 2020, 12:42:15 pm »
There is a lot more bank hacking going on than is every acknowledged. One of the primary reasons that banks settle many fraud cases without much hassle is to bolster confidence in online banking and credit card usage. Banks do not want a return to cash; it’s expensive to handle, easy to take out of their hands and difficult to justify charges levied. Cashless systems on the other hand can be largely automated, are easy to analyse and easy to justify charges.

If the general populace realised just how easy it is to spoof card details there would be an outcry and a wholesale rejection of the system.

TBH, I think if most people understood how money worked they'd be outcry and wholesale rejection of the system.

We're generally happier if we pretend that computers are magic, money makes sense, businesses are ethical, governments know what they're doing, etc...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2020, 01:08:05 pm »
Money is a controlling construct.  They allow you a small amount in return for slogging your guts out then proceed to take it back at every opportunity crom you, even when you are dead.

It is a mechanism to remind you of your lack of real worth   it is entirely false and a construct of and for the exclusive benefit of the neoliberal elite.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2020, 10:43:19 pm »
Quote
He could not force himself to understand how banks functioned and so forth, because all the operations of capitalism were as meaningless to him as the rites of a primitive religion, as barbaric, as elaborate. and as unnecessary. In a human sacrifice to deity there might be at least a mistaken and terrible beauty; in the rites of the moneychangers, where greed, laziness, and envy were assumed to motivate all men's acts, even the terrible became banal.
Ursula Le Guin.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Garmin withdrawal and frustration
« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2020, 11:23:30 pm »
There is a lot more bank hacking going on than is every acknowledged. One of the primary reasons that banks settle many fraud cases without much hassle is to bolster confidence in online banking and credit card usage. Banks do not want a return to cash; it’s expensive to handle, easy to take out of their hands and difficult to justify charges levied. Cashless systems on the other hand can be largely automated, are easy to analyse and easy to justify charges.

If the general populace realised just how easy it is to spoof card details there would be an outcry and a wholesale rejection of the system.

TBH, I think if most people understood how money worked they'd be outcry and wholesale rejection of the system.

We're generally happier if we pretend that computers are magic, money makes sense, businesses are ethical, governments know what they're doing, etc...

I did once see the classic “Object or With-block variable not set” error on a cash machine.  :)
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.