Author Topic: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage  (Read 2096 times)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« on: September 07, 2020, 05:28:04 pm »


Ok, it's time for yet another Quixoticgeek asks for a product that meets unreasonable requirements thread as we've not had one in a while.

I'm looking for a pair of bottle cages, each capable of holding a full 1L SIS bike bottle, vertically (such as on a fork), when riding across the cobbles on the way to Roubaix.

Does such a thing exist?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2020, 05:57:56 pm »
Quote
Grip tape on bottle cages
The rough ride of the cobbles also takes its toll on bottle cages, and the vibrations will often work loose bottles sending them rolling across the road. To avoid this many teams fit steel bottle cages instead of their normal carbon-fibre ones which can be shaped to give a secure hold of the bottle.

This is often complemented by grip tape, which might do no good whatsoever to the bottle, but should keep it securely held in place to ensure that a rider will be well hydrated come the end of the race.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/10-ways-the-pros-modify-their-bikes-for-the-cobbles-214775

It's unreasonable to ask such a question on a UK forum, everyone knows our roads are all perfectly smooth!  ;)
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2020, 06:10:52 pm »
What about those contraptions which are adjustable with a retaining strap that tourists use for petrol / meths bottle carrying?

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2020, 06:14:00 pm »
What about those contraptions which are adjustable with a retaining strap that tourists use for petrol / meths bottle carrying?

I was wondering about that.  Particularly one where the mount involves something more complicated than a simple sliding action.

Of course then there's the question of whether you need quick access to it (ie. to drink out of), or if it's just a secondary bottle that can be swapped over at a convenient off-the-bike moment.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2020, 06:17:33 pm »
Google for Gorilla Cage.  Might be what you seek.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2020, 06:28:33 pm »
Gorilla Cage is the big one, for sleeping bags and stuff. Monkii Cage is what you want.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2020, 06:45:54 pm »
Gorilla Cage is the big one, for sleeping bags and stuff. Monkii Cage is what you want.

The normal one just slides on, thobut.  I have vague recollections of an alternative slide-and-twist version for fitting in small frames that might be a bit more pavé-proof.

Regardless, you'll need to beef up the single velcro strap securing the bottle.  The one that holds my fuel bottle does the job with a bit of old inner tube wrapped around the bottle to give it a bit of elasticity, but that's mounted horizontally on a full-suspension bike.  When I use it for a 750ml bidon vertically on the Brompton (where I generally try to avoid pavé), there's a bit of slippage.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2020, 06:46:16 pm »
Gorilla Cage is the big one, for sleeping bags and stuff. Monkii Cage is what you want.

And neither is suitable. The Monkii holds the bottle purely by a single strap. That isn't enough for the brutality of Roubaix.

I have one of those, I use it for a fuel bottle on the down tube when touring. I have two blackburn cages if I wanted to carry a sleeping bag etc...

I have the bottle mounts, I just need a suitable cage.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2020, 07:05:37 pm »
Gorilla Cage is the big one, for sleeping bags and stuff. Monkii Cage is what you want.

The normal one just slides on, thobut.  I have vague recollections of an alternative slide-and-twist version for fitting in small frames that might be a bit more pavé-proof.
There are both, or all three. And I have all three! Gorilla v Monkii is size. Monkii comes in a twist and lock version as well as a slide and lock version. Theoretically the twist version is more secure – this means in terms of the cage staying on the frame, not the bottle staying in the cage. I have both versions and actually prefer the slide version, cos it's easier to fit and remove in a limited space. Both are identical in terms of the strap for the bottle.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2020, 07:14:31 pm »
Try the Xlab Gorilla cage.  Or if that's not enough (or if you just want to go for max grip straight away) the Xlab Gorilla XT.  They're normal-sized bottle cages but very grippy.

Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2020, 07:23:31 pm »
Elite Cuissa alloy . Push it closed a bit before use for even better grip.
You’ll spot them on pro’s bikes for Paris-Roubaix

Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2020, 07:31:59 pm »
Gorilla Cage is the big one, for sleeping bags and stuff. Monkii Cage is what you want.

The normal one just slides on, thobut.  I have vague recollections of an alternative slide-and-twist version for fitting in small frames that might be a bit more pavé-proof.

Regardless, you'll need to beef up the single velcro strap securing the bottle.

The Gorilla Cage would probably be more suitable for a 1 litre bottle, giving support higher up, having 3 straps attaching to the back plate and also a fabric-based retainer at the bottom rather than the perhaps more risky plastic shelf of the Monkii. It doesn't have plastic wings either, so can be matched to the diameter of what you're carrying, hook and loop section coordination permitting.

It also comes with a separate velcro strap with silicone grippy strips on the back for wrapping around the bag and the relevant part of the fork or frame. Might one of these fancy voile straps the cool kids are talking about be deployed to similar effect?

The mount Kim is thinking about is the V-Cage. That really only affects the interface between cage and mounts though, although might be useful on pavé. The Gorilla Cage mount has a similar action.

[slightly cross posted with Cudzoziemiec]


Seth Bike Hacks has done a video on bottle cages for techy mountain biking. That might be of use to you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxw6L0QmPF4

I think he also uses a magnetic set up. Maybe the Fidlock bottle? (Gets a bit of a battering here: https://youtu.be/UADXI9BJRs8?t=181) I don't know if there are options for larger bottles though.



Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2020, 08:09:14 pm »
By the way, don’t try litre bottles on a carbon frame over rough terrain- I’ve seen the sockets pulled out of the frame.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2020, 08:25:11 pm »
Are you aiming to remove these bottles from the cages while riding? If not, just use shortened toe-straps around the neck and the cage. If you do, you need to look for a strapless cage.

Go for tubular stainless cages and replace them every few years when they start to fatigue crack. https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Arundel/Stainless-Steel-Bottle-Cage/16GN is good on roughstuff.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2020, 10:02:25 pm »
https://www.bikebuddy.co.uk/ ? Sure I first saw that mentioned on here.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2020, 10:06:27 pm »
My BikeBuddy cracked on one of the tight radius bends when I had a 1.5 litre PET bottle in it but that was road-only.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2020, 10:41:34 pm »
I got these for my recumbent after losing a bottle on a 200 audax last December.

https://tacx.com/product/deva/

They are mounted horizontally under my recumbent seat and hold the bottles firm.  No movement at all. I only use 750mL bottles so not sure about 1Ltr ones.  But working horizontally they are certainly working harder than they would upright.

Also they are a Dutch company, though bought out by Garmin in the last year or so.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2020, 03:58:56 pm »
Try the Xlab Gorilla cage.  Or if that's not enough (or if you just want to go for max grip straight away) the Xlab Gorilla XT.  They're normal-sized bottle cages but very grippy.

They look interesting, if rather expensive. I wonder if they would be too hard for me to pull a bottle out, without falling off...

Elite Cuissa alloy . Push it closed a bit before use for even better grip.
You’ll spot them on pro’s bikes for Paris-Roubaix

These look promising based on reviews, and considerably cheaper too... Might get a pair to test with, and see if I can find somewhere locally with horrible surface to test them...

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2020, 04:07:58 pm »
Pro cyclists don’t use 1 litre bidons, particularly at Paris-Roubaix.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

SoreTween

  • Most of me survived the Pennine Bridleway.
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2020, 04:10:39 pm »
Are you aiming to remove these bottles from the cages while riding? If not, just use shortened toe-straps around the neck and the cage. If you do, you need to look for a strapless cage.

Go for tubular stainless cages and replace them every few years when they start to fatigue crack. https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Arundel/Stainless-Steel-Bottle-Cage/16GN is good on roughstuff.
Or double sided velcro.  This is my MTB setup which has worked fine for multi day cross country touring including many off road descents at far greater than wise velocity in the Pennines.  Without the straps the fork bottles would launch like a pair of mortar rounds taking a surprisingly minor bump > 10kph.  The bottle by the BB is the only one I drink from refilling from the others through the day.  It is reasonably tight but I think mostly it holds because the line of the shock is at an angle and the CofG moves down as it empties.  Originally the BB cage was alloy and adjusted for extra tightness but fatigue got it on the Sandstone Way Pennine Bridleway.  Other than that this setup has worked as shown since 2015.


^^ This will hold all day ^^                                                                                     ^^ this will not, not enough contact on the velcro. ^^


2020 targets: None
There is only one infinite resource in this universe; human stupidity.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2020, 04:16:30 pm »
Plastic Cateye cages are totally bombproof but don’t have enough inherent retention for some situations, so the additional straps are mandatory behind the seat or on fork legs.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2020, 04:35:15 pm »
I'm using Nukeproof straps for my bottle off-roading, but although I can get the bottle out of the elastic when riding, I can't get it back in.
I can't find a picture with a bottle in- they're all about the spare tyres. It works for a bottle or a waterproof, depending which bike I'm on.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2020, 04:39:58 pm »
I'm using Nukeproof straps for my bottle off-roading, but although I can get the bottle out of the elastic when riding, I can't get it back in.
I can't find a picture with a bottle in- they're all about the spare tyres. It works for a bottle or a waterproof, depending which bike I'm on.
Never have so many photos been used to show so little!
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2020, 04:46:40 pm »
I'm still looking for pictures, I might have to just walk downstairs to the bike!

In the meantime... https://reviews.mtbr.com/in-search-of-the-most-secure-bottle-cage
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Pavé Proof Bottle Cage
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2020, 05:06:09 pm »
Yeah, I was referring to Wiggle's 40 different photos which are all exactly the same.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...