Author Topic: Apps and what you get.  (Read 641 times)

Apps and what you get.
« on: October 09, 2020, 03:41:20 pm »
Really struggling here folks with understanding Apps and my Wahoo Roam.
Any help appreciated.

I have free versions of Komoot and Ride with GPS apps.

When I download certain routes from (say) the Audax site in (say) gpx format, I am given the option to download directly into the Element App / Roam.
That's fine. It works.

But sometimes I'm not given that option and can only download into Komoot and RidewithGPS, but then I can't seem to transfer from those Apps to the Element / Roam.

Any idea why I can't transfer these routes?

Do I have to pay for Komoot / RidewithGPS?

I'm also trying to plan routes in other parts of the country in these Apps and whilst I can plan them on the App (phone or tablet) I can't export.
Is that also because I need to pay ?

How do other people transfer files for free?
(Will pay for an App if I have to but knowing my luck I would end up with something not suitable.....

Any help appreciated.



Re: Apps and what you get.
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2020, 04:40:41 pm »
With any version of Ride with GPS (free or paid) there are 2 ways to get routes onto the Wahoo (that I know of)

1. Connect Ride with GPS (RwGPS) as an authorised app from within the Element app. Having done this, you can sync from the Roam and all routes that you have within RwGPS will download onto the Roam. If you keep the number of routes stored in RwGPS to a minimum this works well, otherwise learning how to search on the Roam would be advisable, except for recently added rides which will appear at the top of the list on the device.

2. Export the route from RwGPS as a TCX (or GPX), and then from your phone, find the TCX file in Files (on iPhone, or whatever that would be on your OS), select it and export it to the Element app. Then you can sync from the Roam.

With Komoot, you can do #2 above. You can also authorise the app as per #1, but I don't know whether that then sync in the same way as RwGPS

Eddington: 129 miles

Re: Apps and what you get.
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2020, 05:40:10 pm »
That's great and certainly answers a number of my issues.

I've also just discovered (or think I have) that I can plan a route in Komoot from within my free region to other parts of the UK and save, then download to the Element App/Roam.
That's a step forward.

Many thanks once again.
You probably don't know how much it's appreciated!!! 😁

Re: Apps and what you get.
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2020, 07:40:48 pm »
Boring technical explanation:

When you download a file from the internet it comes with a "MIME type" header that the browser uses to identify which file type it is. GPX (and I think TCX) don't have a solidly defined MIME type so the server tells the browser it's XML or text or just an unknown type.

Likewise apps have to tell the OS which file types they support, and some are promiscuous and say they'll accept any type, some try only to stick to known types. When the server sends the wrong type you'll only see the promiscuous ones in the share options.

psyclist's solution 2 works because once the file is on disk the OS only looks at the filename extension, and that's (usually) much more reliable.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Apps and what you get.
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2020, 12:12:57 pm »
Though .gpx files acquired via the audax website do present as files, not as a screenful of XML.

Really struggling here folks with understanding Apps and my Wahoo Roam.
Any help appreciated.
... ...
Any idea why I can't transfer these routes?

May be a good time to just review some basic points about GPX files.

* A GPX file may be a Route or a Track (or both) and there is no indication just looking at the file extension, which it is. 
You therefore have to view the file in a compatible device or software, or simply open it in a text editor and view the code (easier than it sounds), to know which of those possibles you have.

* Although you, me, and everyone else uses the word 'route' (see above quote) - most people who acquire a GPX from somewhere else (an Organiser, a friend, or RWGPS etc) actually prefer it to be a Track.  Most (but not all) Organisers know this and so supply a GPX in Track form.  Thus there is an expectation that downloadable GPX files are Track files - but it is as well to remember they may not be.  You have to check your file.  It doesn't help that online planners often offer an option to 'download route' when in fact the file they present may (or may not) be a Track.  You have to check your file.

* Tracks are preferred because they have less to go wrong and come closer to the 'just works' ideal - Routes may be perfectly usable and in many ways preferable but in general they require much more empathy, understanding and general nerdiness to work well.

* Viewing the GPX code as text, look for a
<trk>
tag - may be as high as line 12 or may be much lower down in the file - and numerous
<trkpt
tags - if these are present you have a Track file.  Close it without saving.

* A GPX file may contain more than one Track - not all GPS devices play well with such a file.

* A GPX file may contain unlimited numbers of Trackpoints - most GPS devices have some sort of Trackpoint limit, a common limit is 10,000 points (per Track).  (Older Garmin Etrex types are limited to 500 !!  Actually 500 is fine for a 200km, just about usable for a 300 but longer than that and you would need at least 2 Tracks, one out, one back.  This is often a good idea anyway, regardless of distance.)  Many (but not all) Organisers know this and so supply a GPX limited to <10000 points.  (Very few limit to <500 these days.)  Online planning sites such as RWGPS often ignore any such limits.  If you encounter the points limit mid-ride your navigation will simply stop.  So - you have to check your file.

* If it does have too many points you can either split the file into 2 or downsample it to remove spurious points - try this website provided by a fellow yacfer:
https://simple-gpx.herokuapp.com/

I mention all this (which is old news to most readers here) because if you are seeking a 'just works' workflow where one app talks to another to auto-magically give you a line to follow - seems to me there's always going to be a bit more to it than that.  (Maybe I'm wrong, I have after all been a dinosaur for longer than I can remember.)
you only live but once, and when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Apps and what you get.
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2020, 01:10:32 pm »
Boring technical explanation:

When you download a file from the internet it comes with a "MIME type" header that the browser uses to identify which file type it is. GPX (and I think TCX) don't have a solidly defined MIME type so the server tells the browser it's XML or text or just an unknown type.

Likewise apps have to tell the OS which file types they support, and some are promiscuous and say they'll accept any type, some try only to stick to known types. When the server sends the wrong type you'll only see the promiscuous ones in the share options.

psyclist's solution 2 works because once the file is on disk the OS only looks at the filename extension, and that's (usually) much more reliable.
If it is apps on an apple iPhone then there is the the whole universal link url mechanism on top of that. I believe android has something similar.

Re: Apps and what you get.
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2020, 03:42:01 pm »
Thanks all - appreciated.
At least  I've been able to check that my 200km next weekend shows correctly on my Wahoo unit. Whether I can manage that distance (first time) is another point!
😎