Author Topic: Vuelta 2020  (Read 3978 times)

Mr Larrington

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Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2020, 11:06:48 am »
I'd love to know how Bora-Hansgrohe's Jay McCarthy ended up so far into a field on a dead straight dead flat road yesterday.  And how his bike ended up another thirty yards further on.  The Internets has thus far blandly informed me that he had “a high-speed crash”.
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Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2020, 04:36:20 pm »
I'd love to know how Bora-Hansgrohe's Jay McCarthy ended up so far into a field on a dead straight dead flat road yesterday.  And how his bike ended up another thirty yards further on.  The Internets has thus far blandly informed me that he had “a high-speed crash”.

Fortunately, he appears to have suffered no more than injured ligaments in his right knee - the pictures of the aftermath certainly do suggest that it must have been pretty spectacular.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/no-fractures-for-mccarthy-in-vuelta-a-espana-crash/

EuwotwashSport's report does go as far as saying he was in the pelican, so my best wild-assed speculation is a touch of wheels which spat him over the drop into the field. Base over apex ensued...

https://www.eurosport.com/cycling/vuelta-a-espana/2020/jay-mccarthy-withdraws-from-vuelta-a-espana-but-suffers-no-fractures_sto7969987/story.shtml
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2020, 07:28:02 pm »
Dumoulin has also goned hoam, though not from making a forced landing on a grass strip.

Additional: how the muddy flip do you pronounce “Jhojan”?  *** thinks it's “Jochen” but I ent convinced.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2020, 08:07:13 pm »
Additional: how the muddy flip do you pronounce “Jhojan”?  *** thinks it's “Jochen” but I ent convinced.

"Throatwobbler Mangrove"

HTH.
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2020, 11:48:12 pm »
Get out!
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Mr Larrington

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Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2020, 07:29:57 pm »
OK, machine, why does the first half of last night’s highlights consist of big fat drunks playing darts >:(
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Mrs Pingu

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Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2020, 08:24:31 pm »
Ours was ok
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2020, 08:52:03 pm »
You can go off people…
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2020, 08:45:02 am »
Anyone know why the UCI powers did not implement the '3 sec rule' after stg 10 - leading to Froome 'jersey' protest at stg 11 depart? 
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2020, 09:46:39 am »
Because they got it wrong, it should never have been a 3’ rule for a stage like that, that’s usually for bunch sprint stages. As there was no bunch sprint they - as the UCI rules allow - reconsidered after the finish and applied the correct-for-that-stage-profile 1’ rule. Of course that ignored the fact that Carapaz lifted off once he was within 3 seconds of Roglic.  :)   But the UCI are never wrong.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2020, 10:02:37 am »
I’ve never been a big fan of Froome , but it was good to see him step into the patron role. He’s gone up in my estimation, and I’m guessing the estimation of the peloton.

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2020, 10:22:41 am »
Plus the 3 seconds rule is in case of a crash, not in case of a regular time gap. There was no crash in this stage.

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2020, 10:30:31 am »
Thought 3 sec rule was a safety end sprint thing meaning no 'gap' applied for timings unless over 3 secs in duration...
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

fd3

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2020, 10:44:46 am »
It should never have been 3 seconds, they got that wrong.  They shouldn't have changed the rules after the fact and got that wrong too.

thankfully two wrongs make a right.
And we know the flag of love is from above/And we can force you to be free

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2020, 10:54:23 am »
Plus the 3 seconds rule is in case of a crash, not in case of a regular time gap. There was no crash in this stage.

It's the 3km rule that can apply when there is a crash.

Eddington: 129 miles

TimC

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Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2020, 12:56:55 pm »
Plus the 3 seconds rule is in case of a crash, not in case of a regular time gap. There was no crash in this stage.

That's not correct. This is about what gap there has to be in finishing times to go outside the 'same finishing time' bracket. It's different in 'sprint' stages from 'mountain' stages. Exactly as Andyoxon says.

RichForrest

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Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2020, 03:16:31 pm »

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2020, 08:12:02 pm »
Since forever (or electronic timing and photofinish cameras at least), the rules have been that if you finish within a second of the previous rider, you are part of the same group, and a group gets the same time as the lead rider in that group.

In sprint stages, it is quite common for tailing off leadout riders to leave gaps, and if you are the wrong side of a 1.5 second split, you may lose 15 or 20 seconds. Consequently, GC riders (and their associated protectors) were trying to stay at the front until the the final sprint started, not sprinting, and generally getting in the way of the sprinters, possibly resulting in extra crashes.

So, two or three years ago, the UCI decided to reduce this danger by increasing the required inter-group gap from 1 second to 3 seconds in those stages expected to end in bunch sprints, so there wasn't the same need for GC riders and their associates to stay near the front.

In this case, the Vuelta organisers declared that this stage (10) was an expected bunch sprint stage, and that the 3-second rule would apply, and the commissiaires confirmed this before the start. However, at the end, having watched the finish, they changed the rules, saying that the 1-second rule applied.
Carapaz, being the wrong side of a short split therefore lost 3 seconds to Roglic that he wouldn't have lost had the rules as at the start of the stage been applied.

The consequences of this decision are...
a) Carapaz lost the red jersey
b) The 3-second rule may as well no longer exist, since GC riders and associates will revert to staying close to the front in case the commissiaires should change the rules after the event again.
c) In the (unlikely) event that Carapaz loses the Vuelta by less than 3 seconds, the commissiaires and/or the UCI may find themselves in court. People like Jim Ratcliffe tend not to have a history of rolling over to the diktats of petty bureaucrats.
d) the start of stage 11 got delayed a little.


In further news, nice to see Hugh Carthy take a good win on an iconic finish.

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2020, 08:28:56 pm »
In further news, nice to see Hugh Carthy take a good win on an iconic finish.

Yes this is another cracking race.   :thumbsup:

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2020, 10:11:28 pm »
L'Angliru!  Excellent.  Punishing stuff.
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2020, 10:52:03 pm »
Additional: how the muddy flip do you pronounce “Jhojan”?  *** thinks it's “Jochen” but I ent convinced.
"joegen", or alternatively, in Spanish as "chochen" (with Scottish-style "ch"es).

Pingu

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Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2020, 11:24:07 pm »
I’ve never been a big fan of Froome , but it was good to see him step into the patron role. He’s gone up in my estimation, and I’m guessing the estimation of the peloton.

Would he have stepped in if Rog & Carapaz's roles were reversed?

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2020, 08:38:02 am »
I’ve never been a big fan of Froome , but it was good to see him step into the patron role. He’s gone up in my estimation, and I’m guessing the estimation of the peloton.

Would he have stepped in if Rog & Carapaz's roles were reversed?

I think he would. It was obviously an opinion shared by all the teams, and he is the most senior Grand Tour winner there.

fd3

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2020, 11:41:25 am »
^ This.  Both Ineos and Jumbo backed the protest.  andrew_s pointed out the big problem
Quote
b) The 3-second rule may as well no longer exist, since GC riders and associates will revert to staying close to the front in case the commissiaires should change the rules after the event again.
Which will just lead to more big crashes
And we know the flag of love is from above/And we can force you to be free

Re: Vuelta 2020
« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2020, 11:31:36 pm »
Great to see Hugh Carthy going so well.  That climb looked really steep, it was really good watching the riders TT up there in the smallest gears.
Thought froome might have given it a go today.