Author Topic: Not really getting on with SPDs  (Read 4055 times)

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2020, 01:11:57 pm »
Back in my BMX days, bashed shins were the all too regular result of mistimed jumps and tricks. SPDs might have been very useful but hadn't been invented yet. Never occurred to me to use toeclips for BMX.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2020, 01:24:54 pm »
There's a lot to be said for a nice chunky set of BMX pedals if you're going to use flats.  Pins are good at improving grip, but aren't kind to either shoes or shins.

I was pretty wary of pins when I started using flats again about three years ago, both for my shins and shoes, but those fears have not been borne out by experience:

- I've never had more than a tiny scratch from them.  OTOH I have really hurt my shin a few times when I've not clipped in properly and the pedal has swung round hard. 

- And I'm still using my first pair of Five Tens after several thousands of miles.  The inner has worn some holes and may well wear out before the sole!

I've found pins to be Not Kind to my default Doc Martens.  I suspect there may be p*nct*r* fairy involvement.  But they did greatly improve grip, which Docs aren't known for.

Shoes wearing from the inside out is normal and ordinary for me.  The notable exception was the walking boots that developed leaks from prolonged riding in PowerGrips, before I took the plunge on SPDs.  With clipless, the wear is concentrated on replaceable parts of the shoe (cleat and insole, respectively), which is a point in their favour, as I hate shoe shopping.

It's been a long time since I bashed my shin on any kind of pedal (which probably means I need to do more off-roading).  I have given my Achilles a good whack on the tyre during an unplanned unclip on the recumbent a couple of times, but that would happen more frequently if I tried to ride it in flats.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2020, 01:29:07 pm »
Most of my shin-bashes have come when baling out and pushing through eg deep dry sand.
Let's go for a ride to the Old Sawmill, Valentina, Buzz and you.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2020, 01:33:58 pm »
Most of my shin-bashes have come when baling out and pushing through eg deep dry sand.

Yes!  Removable pedals (with a spare socket out of shin range to mount them so they don't sink forever into the bog) might be a solution perhaps...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2020, 02:14:45 pm »
I only have flats on the MTB- and that's so I can hike-a-bike in comfort. I wear my walking boots.
I don't like long periods of riding it on the road as it's geared so low I spin out and that's no fun unrestrained.

Having said that, I have no skillz.

I've had my feet retained on my pedals since I was about 10. We had clips & straps- I still can get the same feeling of tense excitement if I reach to my foot, in a strap tightening way, now, when I'm clipped in.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #55 on: November 03, 2020, 02:51:44 pm »
With clipless, the wear is concentrated on replaceable parts of the shoe (cleat and insole, respectively), which is a point in their favour, as I hate shoe shopping.

What does wear though, is the bit of plastic beside an SPD cleat that gives extra support on SPD pedals with larger platforms.  That leads to inwards and outwards rocking of the ankle.  I had issues from this after a long ride a few years ago and had to retire what were then my favourite SPD shoes.  I then got some Sidis, on which that bit is also replaceable.

ian

  • feat. Undead Jess & Finestre, Queen of Hell
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2020, 03:11:07 pm »
I did go through a clipless phase, I only fell off twice (once a comedy pie-related overbalancing incident in Covent Garden that I think qualified as a performance art piece, the other time when I stopped to talk to someone as I passed).

It was fine, but I don't think it offered much and I missed the convenience of get-on-and-go and didn't like wearing those orthopaedic looking cycling shoes (and the selection of normal-looking SPD shoes was minimal).

So I just use flat pedals now and whatever shoes I fancy. I have no issues doing a 100+ km like that. I'm not fast but I'm not especially slow either. I can't say my feet have ever slipped off the pedals and shin strikes tend to happen when I'm pushing the bike. But as a former BMXer, I'm effectively inoculated against pedal shin interactions.
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quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2020, 03:38:29 pm »
So I just use flat pedals now and whatever shoes I fancy. I have no issues doing a 100+ km like that. I'm not fast but I'm not especially slow either. I can't say my feet have ever slipped off the pedals and shin strikes tend to happen when I'm pushing the bike. But as a former BMXer, I'm effectively inoculated against pedal shin interactions.

For perspective, I did RatN on flat pedals. ISTR one of the big Spanish ultra races the winner was using flats too.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2020, 04:21:21 pm »
So I just use flat pedals now and whatever shoes I fancy. I have no issues doing a 100+ km like that. I'm not fast but I'm not especially slow either. I can't say my feet have ever slipped off the pedals and shin strikes tend to happen when I'm pushing the bike. But as a former BMXer, I'm effectively inoculated against pedal shin interactions.

For perspective, I did RatN on flat pedals. ISTR one of the big Spanish ultra races the winner was using flats too.

People seem to assume that clipless pedals are about performance (and therefore something that you need for racing, and pointless if you're not), rather than an ergonomic tool.  It's plainly evident that flat pedals work fine for most people most of the time, and given the right shoes and body that they're no barrier to spectacular feats of cycling.  But equally, clipless pedals are often useful for people doing things that aren't racing.

I think they tend to get marketed as part of the aspirational sport cyclist image.  Along with drop handlebars, diamond frame bikes and h*lm*ts.  Of course, if you're using MTB pedals and shoes on the road, you're already subverting that somewhat...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #59 on: November 03, 2020, 04:45:14 pm »
MTB pedals subvert it in two senses: that they're not roady and that MTB clipless is itself, AFAICT from my limited acquaintance, going out of favour with hardcore, high performance off-road riders. But they're still popular in eg audax, cos apart from anything else you can walk to the cake counter in them.
Let's go for a ride to the Old Sawmill, Valentina, Buzz and you.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2020, 04:55:53 pm »
MTB clipless is itself, AFAICT from my limited acquaintance, going out of favour with hardcore, high performance off-road riders.
As a newcomer (latecomer) to MTB, this is something I’ve been pondering, so I’m interested to read this.

Are they abandoning clipless altogether or switching to road clipless? (I assume the former but asking to be sure!)
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2020, 05:02:32 pm »
The former is my understanding – that's why we've got all these chunky multi-pinned and toothed pedals in colourful titanium etc – but I should repeat this is very much second-hand info. I'm really not a mountainbiker.
Let's go for a ride to the Old Sawmill, Valentina, Buzz and you.

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2020, 05:03:55 pm »
MTB clipless is itself, AFAICT from my limited acquaintance, going out of favour with hardcore, high performance off-road riders.
As a newcomer (latecomer) to MTB, this is something I’ve been pondering, so I’m interested to read this.

Are they abandoning clipless altogether or switching to road clipless? (I assume the former but asking to be sure!)

I bet that depends on whether they are a downhiller or a cross-country racer.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2020, 05:06:13 pm »
MTB clipless is itself, AFAICT from my limited acquaintance, going out of favour with hardcore, high performance off-road riders.
As a newcomer (latecomer) to MTB, this is something I’ve been pondering, so I’m interested to read this.

Are they abandoning clipless altogether or switching to road clipless? (I assume the former but asking to be sure!)

MTBing with road clipless would be an exciting new spin on Comedy Off-Roading.  Not only are the shoes a liability grip-wise, but the cleats are made of brie, and the whole system is spectacularly hopeless in the presence of mud etc.

I had an exciting moment on a recent (for 2019 values of recent ) FNRttC where I discovered that one of my Look pedals[1] wouldn't unclip properly, which turned out to be due to a pebble stuck in the mechanism.  It was only because it wan't my preferred stopping foot, and that I'd lowracered my way towards the front of the group and didn't have to stop to queue behind a more nervous sensible person on the COR section that this didn't send me sliding into a ditch.


[1] I'd brought the Baron on account of it being The Flat One, but not gone to the effort to swap to sensible pedals, which was, with hindsight, a mistake.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

ian

  • feat. Undead Jess & Finestre, Queen of Hell
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2020, 05:08:24 pm »
So I just use flat pedals now and whatever shoes I fancy. I have no issues doing a 100+ km like that. I'm not fast but I'm not especially slow either. I can't say my feet have ever slipped off the pedals and shin strikes tend to happen when I'm pushing the bike. But as a former BMXer, I'm effectively inoculated against pedal shin interactions.

For perspective, I did RatN on flat pedals. ISTR one of the big Spanish ultra races the winner was using flats too.

People seem to assume that clipless pedals are about performance (and therefore something that you need for racing, and pointless if you're not), rather than an ergonomic tool.  It's plainly evident that flat pedals work fine for most people most of the time, and given the right shoes and body that they're no barrier to spectacular feats of cycling.  But equally, clipless pedals are often useful for people doing things that aren't racing.

I think they tend to get marketed as part of the aspirational sport cyclist image.  Along with drop handlebars, diamond frame bikes and h*lm*ts.  Of course, if you're using MTB pedals and shoes on the road, you're already subverting that somewhat...

I think they're often pitched with the lycra as 'proper' cyclewear. I'm not sure if there's public shaming involved if you turn up a club meet in your trainers. It probably feels like the day at school when you have to do PE in your pants because you'd forgotten your kit.

My main reason for not using them was convenience, even the most stylish of SPD shoes wasn't. When I'm leaving work (back in the day), I just wanted to hop on the bike and get going, wearing the same shoes as I've worn all day.
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Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2020, 05:18:39 pm »
I think they're often pitched with the lycra as 'proper' cyclewear. I'm not sure if there's public shaming involved if you turn up a club meet in your trainers. It probably feels like the day at school when you have to do PE in your pants because you'd forgotten your kit.

At my school, those who'd forgotten their kit got to borrow some from the lost property box, taking care to ask the resident fungus politely before disturbing it - fungus being subtle and quick to anger.

The pedal equivalent is when someone at a BHPC meet agrees to let you do a couple of laps on their shiny whatever, and then turns out to be using Speedplay Frogs or something weird, necessitating sweaty shoe-swapping.  (This practice is currently banned under teh coronalurgi rulez, chiz.)
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2020, 05:33:50 pm »
I think it completely depends on the particular club and even the individuals within the club. Not all clubs are lycra and road pedals, some are very much tracksuit and trainers and can we stop now for a pint/sandwich/smoke. Of those more trad roady clubs which are into the lycra, some, I'm sure, will sneer at you for using flat pedals or wearing running shorts, but many won't mind.
Let's go for a ride to the Old Sawmill, Valentina, Buzz and you.

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2020, 05:49:37 pm »
….MTBing with road clipless would be an exciting new spin on Comedy Off-Roading.  Not only are the shoes a liability grip-wise, but the cleats are made of brie, and the whole system is spectacularly hopeless in the presence of mud etc....

it didn't stop LOOK from pushing a variant of their three bolt cleat as an offroad system back in the 1980s.  It never took off (mostly because it was a stupid idea) and the result was that the pedals and cleats were available for several years subsequently at knock-down prices.  They were (I think) mostly bought and used by folk who just wanted a cheap clipless pedal and were not fussed about what exactly.

Quel horreur!  PP26


PS75


In this catalogue you can witness the full awfulness of the 'AP65' model pedal, complete with vomit-inducing 1980's 'lifestyle' branding...

https://pyfrides.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/cat-1987.pdf

And whilst folk think of the small SPD cleat as being an exclusively  MTB thing, they are probably forgetting  Dura Ace (PD-7410) and Ultegra (PD-6500) 'road' pedals which also used the small SPD cleat.




cheers

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2020, 06:19:06 pm »
MTBing with road clipless would be an exciting new spin on Comedy Off-Roading.  Not only are the shoes a liability grip-wise, but the cleats are made of brie, and the whole system is spectacularly hopeless in the presence of mud etc.

Oh yes, my experience of trying to negotiate the Pilgrims Way a couple of weeks ago was a lesson in the uselessness of road cleats in muddy conditions.

Not that I needed that lesson, but I got it anyway. Well and truly rammed home.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2020, 06:32:26 pm »
TBH I've known SPDs refuse to engage in extreme mud. Though by then the wheels would hardly turn anyway.
Let's go for a ride to the Old Sawmill, Valentina, Buzz and you.

Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2020, 06:46:17 pm »
TBH I've known SPDs refuse to engage in extreme mud. Though by then the wheels would hardly turn anyway.

early SPDs had 'platform' bindings and in the right (wrong) kind of mud they can clog. However starting with PD-M540 and PD-M520 all subsequent  new model SPDs have had the 'open' binding design which is appreciably  more resistant to clogging; nothing is 'uncloggable' though.... Of the current(ish) SPD pedals only PD-M324 and PD-M545 (I think) retain the old platform binding design.

cheers

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2020, 07:27:49 pm »
And whilst folk think of the small SPD cleat as being an exclusively  MTB thing, they are probably forgetting  Dura Ace (PD-7410) and Ultegra (PD-6500) 'road' pedals which also used the small SPD cleat.
Plus some more recent models. eg the PD-A600 or PD-ES600. Shimano say they are designed for road / touring etc, equivalent to Ultegra.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2020, 08:01:15 pm »
TBH I've known SPDs refuse to engage in extreme mud. Though by then the wheels would hardly turn anyway.

early SPDs had 'platform' bindings and in the right (wrong) kind of mud they can clog. However starting with PD-M540 and PD-M520 all subsequent  new model SPDs have had the 'open' binding design which is appreciably  more resistant to clogging; nothing is 'uncloggable' though.... Of the current(ish) SPD pedals only PD-M324 and PD-M545 (I think) retain the old platform binding design.

cheers
Yeah, I've noticed that the M324s I have are much more clog-prone that the A520s (I think that's the right number).

NB: Do not try riding in clogs unless you're in Amsterdam!
Let's go for a ride to the Old Sawmill, Valentina, Buzz and you.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2020, 08:47:07 pm »
Quote
And whilst folk think of the small SPD cleat as being an exclusively  MTB thing, they are probably forgetting  Dura Ace (PD-7410) and Ultegra (PD-6500) 'road' pedals which also used the small SPD cleat.
I loved those PD-6500. Great pedals.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Not really getting on with SPDs
« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2020, 08:52:04 pm »
I swapped between Look road pedals and cyclocross toeclips when racing MTBs sometime in the ‘80s, depending on whether I was likely to get round the course feet up. SPDs were a revelation when they arrived.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...