Author Topic: Sleep Management  (Read 761 times)

rob

Sleep Management
« on: November 26, 2020, 11:49:08 am »
Hi All

Bit of a long winded post.   I have always struggled to sleep before upcoming events, particularly when that event involves sleep deprivation and the need to bank sleep.   I need to sleep in order to be well prepared for my event in order to achieve my goals so, therefore, I can't sleep.   Pre-event nerves are common but last year, particularly before the Mersey Roads 24 I dug myself into a pretty deep hole and could barely sleep in the 1-2 week run-up.

This is all fine with the odd 1 or 2 events each year as you can plan for it.   When I initially started to train properly I did my turbo sessions before work, but I then had trouble sleeping as I was starting to expect the workout and would fail to sleep or wake too early.   I just ended up knackered so I moved the day about and trained in the window where I got back from work.   Rather than fixing the problem I just avoided it.

As mentioned in the training thread I have moved my plan around based on some real life changes we have had.   What this means is that I now wfh Mon/Wed/Fri and ride into the office Tue/Thu.   It's a long ride so needs a 5am get up.   On weekdays my get up goes 7:30/05:00/07:30/05:00/07:30.  I find myself struggling to get proper sleep on the 2 nights with an early alarm call and then being so shattered afterwards that I get 9hrs straight sleep to recover.   

All of the sleep advice talks about routine with the same bedtime and get up each day and I can't make this work with my current schedule.   I've been at it 6 weeks so far and was hoping my body/head would just settle into the routine but it's not really happening.   It doesn't really help that the work ride is dark both ways.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2020, 12:04:20 pm »
I read (listened) to this: sleep book and he recommends a weekly total rather than a daily goal. He's big on naps.

When I rode to work and gymed on the way, I shifted the axis of my day and got up at 05:30 every day. The days I didn't need to I pootled about the house before I left. Mr Smith didn't seem to mind me going to bed what I assume was hours earlier than him

That said, I'm shit at sleep - I'm averaging about 6 hours these days, and have done for more than a year (so not pandemic-related). It's every bit as awful as you think it might be.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2020, 12:12:26 pm »
Sleep management is an oxymoron, shirley?

In the last couple of years I've developed a disturbing middle-aged person habit of being AWAKE at 6am.  This lasts a couple of hours, and I might get back to sleep by 9 or so.  (My natural low of 10am seems unchanged.)  It doesn't seem to matter when I go to bed or how physically tired I am, but after a few nights of it, I'll have sufficient defect to get a night of decent sleep.  It's like the permanent exhaustion of being a teenager again, but with my body being the traitor, rather than the adult world.

One thing I have learned over the years is that trying to change your sleep phase by going to bed before you're tired is counter-productive.  This goes double if there's a Big Event that you need to be well-rested for the following day.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

arabella

  • no se porque yo no lo se
Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2020, 01:57:20 pm »
I did conclude that going to beb late the night before the night before meant I could manage an early night the night before.
In the dark, all views are the same.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2020, 02:31:49 pm »
One thing I have learned over the years is that trying to change your sleep phase by going to bed before you're tired is counter-productive.  This goes double if there's a Big Event that you need to be well-rested for the following day.

This is where chronic lack of sleep is a winner. I can sleep at 17:30 if I'm inactive enough. I'm just then wide awake at 23:00. 01:00. 04:00.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

rob

Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2020, 02:35:45 pm »
One thing I have learned over the years is that trying to change your sleep phase by going to bed before you're tired is counter-productive.  This goes double if there's a Big Event that you need to be well-rested for the following day.

This is where chronic lack of sleep is a winner. I can sleep at 17:30 if I'm inactive enough. I'm just then wide awake at 23:00. 01:00. 04:00.

In prior times I would work all day Friday, pop home for some food, ride back into town for the 22:00 train to Manningtree for the Green and Yellow Fields 300k.  The trick was to finish mid afternoon Saturday, get home, and then not go to bed too early.   I could usually make it to around 9pm before succumbing and crashing out, then sleeping for 12hrs.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2020, 05:24:42 pm »
What (if anything) is your caffeine intake?

Caffeine is broken down quite slowly and more than 5 cups' equivalent AT ANY TIME OF THE DAY can impair sleep quality.

Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2020, 05:33:09 pm »
What do you do in the hours before you go to bed? Are you active on tablets and / or other things keeping your mind active.

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
  • ACME S&M^2
Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2020, 05:39:18 pm »
What do you do in the hours before you go to bed? Are you active on tablets and / or other things keeping your mind active.

For me before an event (which is now any ride I am doing where someone else is involved!) I struggle to sleep even when everything is prepared the night/day before.. I started to look upon it on the run up to PBP as sleep dep training, 4 hours sleep and then head out to the event wasn't uncommon and quite a good result, often it was less...

The only time I have managed it is with a bottle of red wine assistance which isn't a sustainable option. I put mine down to the anxiety of the build up... thinking back it would be the same if I had a long drive the next day for a meeting - so I don't think it is just 'audax' related for me...
Regards,

Joergen

Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2020, 05:50:11 pm »
I sleep badly before any event, and before a 600k if I get a solid hour I've done well...which is why i dont do them anymore...even though I know I can ride the event with zero sleep deprivation and very comfortably. Mad isn't it.

I've no advice to offer, Im afraid. Cutting caffeine doesn't work. Neither does trying to wank myself into a coma.

Currently I wake up at about 5am, which is an hour before my alarm is set. I get totally wired on two double espressos then hit the road in the dark with loud jungle music in my ears, and commute at 20mph ave. It is, by some margin, the most enjoyable part of my day, and Im convinced that I wake myself up early in anticipation of it.

Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2020, 05:52:58 pm »
I've no advice to offer, Im afraid. Cutting caffeine doesn't work. Neither does trying to wank myself into a coma.

Was that the ride where you passed us and said you'd been having problems gripping the brakes?

Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2020, 06:06:59 pm »
Not sure, but it was the ride where people kept commenting on how drained I looked

Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2020, 06:51:31 pm »
I find it easier if I don't try to stick to a 24 hour schedule.
If I'm in an awake cycle I'll let my sleep time slip a few hours later each night and then stay up for ~30 hours to reset it.
If I'm in a sleepy cycle then I'll sleep for only around 4-5 hours and then stay awake of around double that before going to sleep again.
But I don't work anymore so I can mostly get away with it.

Plus a good soothing voice on an audiobook will always help to switch my brain off and send me to sleep.

Luck .............  ;D

Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2020, 07:14:00 pm »
Hot Flatus and Chris S, you've made my evening with a healthy dose of bawdy humour.

rob

Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2020, 08:32:19 pm »
What (if anything) is your caffeine intake?

Caffeine is broken down quite slowly and more than 5 cups' equivalent AT ANY TIME OF THE DAY can impair sleep quality.

2 or 3 espressos a day.  Nothing after 2pm.  I tried decaf but coffee is one of my last remaining joys.

rob

Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2020, 08:33:50 pm »
Hot Flatus and Chris S, you've made my evening with a healthy dose of bawdy humour.

That was pretty good.   ;D

rob

Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2020, 08:35:31 pm »
What do you do in the hours before you go to bed? Are you active on tablets and / or other things keeping your mind active.

Yes I am and I know I shouldn’t (like now....)

I’m going to start leaving my phone downstairs I think.

Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2020, 09:05:34 am »
I’d suggest that there are at least two factors at play here.

A different getting up time for events. Ideally I’d suggest getting the body into the right rhythm for at least a week before. When van Impe won the Tour, he changed his daily routine to French time for a month before the start. Establish a bedtime routine, stay away from screens,

Anxiety coming up to the event. Maybe being in a different bed if the event isn’t local. I’d suggest trying some relaxation techniques etc well before, to find out what could work for you. Personally, I use prescribed sleeping tablets, but again, try before an important event. For me, having everything for the morning packed or laid out helps me to relax. A tick sheet and a time- line for breakfast, pre- event drinks etc also works for me.

Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2020, 09:38:56 am »
I've always been shit at sleeping, I used to run happily on 4 - 5 hours a night, that's not been the case for a while, I still don't sleep well but I need to more, an ideal night for me these days is 7 hours, normally waking a couple of times.

For me, Paul McKenna's "I can make you sleep" helped, and was certainly worth the tenner to me. He has techniques and advice that helps. One of the best bits of advice was to stop worrying about not sleeping - easier said than done but very productive in terms of avoiding the worst of sleep deprivation. I'd suggest giving the book and DVD a go, and following instructions as how to use it. I'd say choose print over kindle https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0593055381/

Reading it hasn't altered my mad sleep patterns, but it has altered the impact to me. YMMV, obv.

rob

Re: Sleep Management
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2020, 09:43:18 am »
Thanks.   Just started on the Nick Littlehales book, thanks to fboab.