Yet another cheap or full price tool question (SDS)

[Ham]

I have a job to remove a quantity of hard as buggery mortar off a stone lintel and around a window (two, actually) to reinstate the box sash that were removed. The delicacy of operation means that use of my eff-off-big-Hilti demolition hammer is contraindicated. Having had a whack around with cold chisel and lump hammer, I am of a mind that some form of automation in the form of an SDS 3-way drill will be most beneficial.

I have an old B&D pro mains drill that does service for the odd time that I need to drill large (eg 22mm) holes in masonry, otherwise my Makita does fine service for drilling and plugging screws, meaning that I have never had the need for SDS (and all my large drills are non-SDS, too)

So, I'm looking at effectively a one off purchase for this job.

Do I buy one of the big cheapies like this which is more like the power needed for this mortar, but is likely to be awkward to use and fall apart quickly or a branded lightweight like this?

Having never used these, I've no idea how effective they are, I just know that each time I have bought cheap I've regretted it. But the branded version of the big(ger) boys is £250+ which seems a lot for something that I expect to use so little. (so does £140, but at least I can expect it to stand in for the B&D one day)

[L CC]

If this isn't a case for tool hire, I don't know what is.

[Quisling]

If you don't go down the tool hire route then the Titan kit is worth a punt at the price if you're only doing the occasional job. My father in law had a older model Titan SDS which became the "family SDS" that we've all used for various jobs and it lasted years.  I eventually blew it up lifting our kitchen floor tiles which seemed to have been affixed to the floor slab using vulcanicity but by that stage it had seen a busy life. We bought another Titan to replace it. 

More expensive ones are probably easier to repair, and have better vibration damping.  The Titan was massive and unweildy for shoulder-level work.

[Diver300]

When cutting out a big chunk of proper concrete, two friends and I spend several hours taking turns to use one of the big cheap hammer drills, blunting a couple of chisels in the process, and with the gearbox of the drill too hot to hold your hand on for much of that time.

It's still working just as well as when I got it. There may be a few signs of use. (Translation - it's covered in scratches and scuffs).

I don't use it much, as for small holes in brick the cordless is more convenient, but I wouldn't recommend spending more money.

 

[Ham]

If this isn't a case for tool hire, I don't know what is.

That's a good point, that gives me the higher quality for the price of the cheapie. My reluctance to go down that route is that over the years I have found that buying decent stuff and having it available outweighs the short term benefit of hire, so I tend not to think of it. In this "one off" instance, it might make good sense.

[Canardly]

I usually use opportunities like this to buy a decent piece of kit which I know I will then have and be able to use for years afterwards. Having said that, some of the Screwfix low end kit is really good for the occasional DIYer. If you are working overhead weight will be a significant factor.

[The French Tandem]

Do I buy one of the big cheapies like this which is more like the power needed for this mortar, ....

I bought exactly this one back in 2014 when I took over the repointing of a large chunk of our house. My reasoning was that if the tool does the job and dies right after that, it will still be cheaper than to rent a more serious tool, and higher end branded tools were out of my budget.  The job was completed without any problem, and 6 years later, the drill is still going strong.

A

[jsabine]

More than welcome to borrow a half decent lightweight SDS (green Bosch) and a selection of bits - SE7.

(That said, I've never regretted buying it, even with a really good conventional mains drill sitting here too.)

[Polar Bear]

I bought a cheap Lidl sds drill a few years back and it has been a good servant though now on it's last legs.  I think that I'll replace it with the Makita special edition 240v version from Screwfix here.

[Brucey]

if the work is to be delicate, then there is something to be said for considering the use of an air chisel/hammer.  The advantages are that the tool you are holding is smaller, lighter and more wieldy all round, and can be infinitely adjusted for stroke force.

The disadvantages include that you need a compressor to make them go, and that being lightweight, the tool is 'more likely to wag the dog' as it were, so for any given level of percussion at the work, you are also likely to get more percussion in the hands that are holding the tool (although this effect is less than you might expect because the percussion is generated pneumatically; the tool flies to the work and when it bounces off the reaction force is not transmitted directly through the rest of the tool; also the part that moves is comparatively lightweight and can perhaps more easily be a smaller fraction of the mass of the whole tool). Also the tool bits that fit these instruments are usually steel-tipped not carbide tipped. Then again steel tools can soon be reground to the shape that suits you best.

If the mortar is hard but of known depth, there is also something to be said for slotting it (eg using a diamond disc) to a known depth before chiselling.

If you buy a cheap pneumatic tool and already have (or can hire/borrow/buy) a suitable compressor this might be a good way forwards. There are posh ones of course but also cheap ones which are worth having too, eg

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cat114-air-hammer-with-chisel-set/

£17.99 including several steel chisels; cheap as chips.

cheers

[Ham]

if the work is to be delicate, then there is something to be said for considering the use of an air chisel/hammer.  The advantages are that the tool you are holding is smaller, lighter and more wieldy all round, and can be infinitely adjusted for stroke force.

The disadvantages include that you need a compressor to make them go, and that being lightweight, the tool is 'more likely to wag the dog' as it were, so for any given level of percussion at the work, you are also likely to get more percussion in the hands that are holding the tool (although this effect is less than you might expect because the percussion is generated pneumatically; the tool flies to the work and when it bounces off the reaction force is not transmitted directly through the rest of the tool; also the part that moves is comparatively lightweight and can perhaps more easily be a smaller fraction of the mass of the whole tool). Also the tool bits that fit these instruments are usually steel-tipped not carbide tipped. Then again steel tools can soon be reground to the shape that suits you best.

If the mortar is hard but of known depth, there is also something to be said for slotting it (eg using a diamond disc) to a known depth before chiselling.

If you buy a cheap pneumatic tool and already have (or can hire/borrow/buy) a suitable compressor this might be a good way forwards. There are posh ones of course but also cheap ones which are worth having too, eg

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cat114-air-hammer-with-chisel-set/

£17.99 including several steel chisels; cheap as chips.

cheers

Oh my. I'd not thought of that option, I've been looking for the killer app to buy a compressor for years......

GET THEE BEHIND ME, SANTA !!

(only reason I haven't one by today is storage space)

ETA .... and now I remember the confusion of choice behind the selection of a compressor 

[Jurek]

Before I got to the end of Brucey's post ^ I was thinking to myself 'Ham is going to like this.....' 

[Ham]

This one seems:

- compact
- reasonably powerful (5cu/ft/min
- oil free, so better for airbrush
- sub £200

Not that I'm thinking of buying one, oh no.

[Brucey]

word of warning re compressors and air tools; it is something a rigged game.  The cubic ft output of a compressor is usually quoted as FAD (free air delivery), yet the consumption of tools is often specified @ pressure.  So what you will often find is that a nominally 12cuft/min compressor won't run a tool that needs half that delivery at some high pressure, not continuously anyway.

Now this isn't a problem for tools that see intermittent use but for tools that are meant to run continuously it rapidly becomes a major PITA. Having a big tank is a help, but only if you expect to be working in relatively  short bursts.

Compressors also vary in how noisy they are. This is no big deal if you are using a noisy tool continuously, but intermittent use can mean near-permanent noise; either the compressor is running, recharging the tank, or the compressor and the tool are running; it can be very noisy either way.

My advice is to try a few different compressors out with the tool of you choice and see how you get on.   I dunno what the going rate is for compressor hire but that might be the best way of dipping your toes into this murky water.

cheers

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Erbauer were fine when doing my barn conversion. Busting into granite.  When the first one failed they replaced it under the 3 year g'tee.  When the second one packed I took it apart and found a wire had broken because of a poorly designed entry point.  Very easy to repair then pad the entry point with strong tape.

Cheaper ones don't have as many joules/kilo but that's good for upper body workouts.

But sometimes a bloody great hammer is better and some other times a good pick axe. 

With a g'tee, this could be useful:

..the perfect choice for any DIY fanatic. 

[Ham]

Look, I've got one of these, when it comes to demolition I'm sorted



This is stripping a limited area of hard mortar, using the Big Boy is strongly contraindicated.

I'm tending back towards the SDS+, now need to decide between the Titan (for: power against: weight) and possibly the bottom end Makita £140 kit (for: weight against: power)

[Tod28]

Though for chiselling/chipping weight of the tool has the advantage as long as you are capable of holding it in place. The chiselling force/impacts are acting against the weight of the tool not the holding power of your arms.

[Ham]

OK, I considered hire, and it looked like it would run to £100 or more.

I considered the big Titan but hefting 6Kg in the air on the top of a ladder seems like hard work

I considered the cheapo light machines and remembered my last cheapo foray as a multi tool

Considered that border post custom controls are relaxed for and because it's for Miss Ham* 

Went for the Makita.

* Having said this, I should note that I have been vocalising this choice selection for a few days, and I even explained to herself why I was buying a machine, and that it would probably be a cheapie. As I walked in: "That's a Makita - that's not a cheap one".

[Ham]

And it has proved to be the right decision. Powerful enough for the job, light enough to manoeuver and much better handling than any of the cheapies would be.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

All my tools are Makita except for the ones that break.  Mrs A. has just thrown her Dyson into the trash so I have bought her a Makita cordless for Christmas.  She doesn't know yet.

[Jurek]

All my tools are Makita except for the ones that break.  Mrs A. has just thrown her Dyson into the trash so I have bought her a Makita cordless for Christmas.  She doesn't know yet.

You are a remorseless romantic, aren't you?
G'wan.
Own up.