Author Topic: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.  (Read 3470 times)

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2021, 06:25:36 pm »
I'll leave this here, first:

Quote
As of March 2020, WhatsApp had two billion monthly active users
Quote
facebook revenue 70.7 billion USD 2019
Quote
How many Facebook users are there in 2020? 1.69 billion

>>Software licenses for an open source product?
Well, yes. Anything of the scale we are talking about will need some commercial software in there somewhere, and it is going to be $$$. Basically, my experience is open source is fine and dandy but doesn't hack it at scale, not least of which is building your enterprise entirely on open source exposes you to some pretty nasty day-0 attack risks.

I'm quite happy to be wrong, but if I am it isn't by an order of magnitude.

And, what Ian sed.

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2021, 06:35:22 pm »
I don't think that the number of people who care about privacy is small at all.  Ask people if they'd leave a webcam running 24x7 n their bedroom or bathroom for instance and you'd struggle to find more than a small few.  However, when it comes to software and personal data sharing people have a blind spot because 1: they don't really understand the consequences, 2: they don't actually believe the facts and 3: they truly believe that they are getting something special for nothing. 

I suspect most people here do online banking these days as well as use some form of loyalty card or scheme or even multiple versions thereof, happily have their smart speakers on at all times and have their location settings active on their smartphones through which they manage and/or use most or all of the above as well as their social media etc., etc., etc.

When folk say that people have a choice in reality the choice is to not be part of "modern" society or to submit.  It is very difficult to minimise corporate snooping.

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2021, 06:36:03 pm »

>>Software licenses for an open source product?
Well, yes. Anything of the scale we are talking about will need some commercial software in there somewhere, and it is going to be $$$. Basically, my experience is open source is fine and dandy but doesn't hack it at scale, not least of which is building your enterprise entirely on open source exposes you to some pretty nasty day-0 attack risks.


Just had a look at GitHub, looks to me like it is the protocols that are open source, not the systems. Much happier to be wrong in that respect coz I am venturing into an area wot I don't really know about.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2021, 06:41:01 pm »

Just had a look at GitHub, looks to me like it is the protocols that are open source, not the systems. Much happier to be wrong in that respect coz I am venturing into an area wot I don't really know about.

Well given that github seem to be a vial evil bunch of fuckwits that will fire a Jewish employee for calling Nazi's Nazi's. And will provide their services to ICE. I'm not sure anyone should be using them.

You could use gitlab. That has a free to use option that you can fully self host...

And even if you do pay for software licenses for a few products. That's still not going to cost you 200,000,000 per month... or even 20,000,000...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Hot Flatus

  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2021, 07:40:47 pm »
How does Signal make money?

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2021, 07:41:41 pm »
How does Signal make money?

It's a not for profit that is funded by donations.

Next.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2021, 08:08:13 pm »
OK, looking into it, the picture is more complicated.


https://signal.org/blog/signal-foundation/

Quote
the entire Signal team has never been more than 7 people. With three client platforms to develop, a service to build and run, a growing list of integrations to assist with, and millions of users to support, that has often left us wanting.

The $50M is seed funding to expand.

From https://whatisthebusinessmodelof.com/business-models/signal-business-model/

Quote
As far as WhatsApp’s revenue is concerned, accurate earning statements are hard to come by, but WhatsApp’s revenue currently comes from businesses utilizing the service to communicate with customers directly, and the company also plans to integrate payments into the app.


Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2021, 10:11:45 pm »
Well given that github seem to be a vial evil bunch of fuckwits that will fire a Jewish employee for calling Nazi's Nazi's.

I assume this is relevant: https://github.blog/2021-01-17-update-on-an-employee-matter/

(Investigation following protests; head of HR has resigned; public apology and offer of reinstatement to employee.)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2021, 10:42:06 pm »
Well given that github seem to be a vial evil bunch of fuckwits that will fire a Jewish employee for calling Nazi's Nazi's.

I assume this is relevant: https://github.blog/2021-01-17-update-on-an-employee-matter/

(Investigation following protests; head of HR has resigned; public apology and offer of reinstatement to employee.)

Yep I saw that. They keep fucking up tho. Their continued support of ICE is also a major issue.

Yes they have offered to reinstate the poor sod they fired, and they through head of HR on a sword. But the fact they got this far is indicative of institutional failures within the organisation.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2021, 10:42:40 pm »

Well given that github seem to be a vial evil bunch of fuckwits that will fire a Jewish employee for calling Nazi's Nazi's.

As I am supposed to be anti semetic, why does the employee being Jewish matter? 

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2021, 10:46:17 pm »

Well given that github seem to be a vial evil bunch of fuckwits that will fire a Jewish employee for calling Nazi's Nazi's.

As I am supposed to be anti semetic, why does the employee being Jewish matter?

That is a very good question. It comes up in a lot of the headlines and articles on the story. I.e.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/17/22235913/github-significant-mistakes-were-made-firing-jewish-employee-nazis

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2021, 10:50:14 pm »
So, Signal is good.

Signal may become shit in the future.

So, when it becomes shit, what's the new Signal?
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2021, 10:50:44 pm »
IRC
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #63 on: January 17, 2021, 10:52:21 pm »
IRC

Nostalgia, isn't what it used to be.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #64 on: January 17, 2021, 10:54:56 pm »
IRC

Nostalgia, isn't what it used to be.

IRC pretty much is, though.  I don't doubt it will outlast Signal, just like all the other messaging apps.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #65 on: January 17, 2021, 11:02:46 pm »
IRC pretty much is, though.  I don't doubt it will outlast Signal, just like all the other messaging apps.

Yup...

Still using IRC. With the same setup I've been using since 2002...

It Just Works™

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #66 on: January 17, 2021, 11:03:06 pm »
IRC

Nostalgia, isn't what it used to be.

IRC pretty much is, though.  I don't doubt it will outlast Signal, just like all the other messaging apps.

I'm giving up humour.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #67 on: January 17, 2021, 11:07:23 pm »
I'm giving up humour.

It's ok, 2020 was the mortal blow...

--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2021, 11:11:07 pm »
Is IRC secure?

Remember donating to use a freeware irc software.

Wondered the other day if I should wander back to IRC and see what is going on see if there are chat rooms still there that are a bit more interesting and less like reddit.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #69 on: January 17, 2021, 11:12:50 pm »
I'm giving up humour.

It's ok, 2020 was the mortal blow...

J

I'm going to become Jewish for the humor.... Bryan Cranston as a dentist was amusing.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #70 on: January 17, 2021, 11:25:24 pm »
Is IRC secure?

Remember donating to use a freeware irc software.

Wondered the other day if I should wander back to IRC and see what is going on see if there are chat rooms still there that are a bit more interesting and less like reddit.

Depends on your definition of secure.

Depends on the server you use

Depends who you're talking to

Depends how you use it.

It can be. It is not by default.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

ian

  • feat. Undead Jess & Finestre, Queen of Hell
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #71 on: January 18, 2021, 09:23:50 am »
OK, looking into it, the picture is more complicated.


https://signal.org/blog/signal-foundation/

Quote
the entire Signal team has never been more than 7 people. With three client platforms to develop, a service to build and run, a growing list of integrations to assist with, and millions of users to support, that has often left us wanting.

The $50M is seed funding to expand.

From https://whatisthebusinessmodelof.com/business-models/signal-business-model/

Quote
As far as WhatsApp’s revenue is concerned, accurate earning statements are hard to come by, but WhatsApp’s revenue currently comes from businesses utilizing the service to communicate with customers directly, and the company also plans to integrate payments into the app.

$50 million isn't going to go far, so they're going to be reliant on donations pretty quickly. As said, it's not really a business model. People ultimately don't care about privacy. I use Whatsapp because other people do and if I didn't I'd be talking to myself. It's a nice idea and I hope it's successful because I don't like FB, but I'd be surprised after this first rush of media fomented anti-Whatsappery, most people don't just go back to what they're currently using.
Support the Great Surrey Bear Census 2020

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #72 on: January 18, 2021, 09:29:44 am »
$50 million isn't going to go far, so they're going to be reliant on donations pretty quickly. As said, it's not really a business model. People ultimately don't care about privacy. I use Whatsapp because other people do and if I didn't I'd be talking to myself. It's a nice idea and I hope it's successful because I don't like FB, but I'd be surprised after this first rush of media fomented anti-Whatsappery, most people don't just go back to what they're currently using.

Well they've been around since 2014, so they are certainly no short term operation...

I'm in a state now where I have telegram, signal, discord, irc, and twitter. Some people I know are on all of them, some I talk to only via one of them. It reminds me a lot of the instant messenger wars of the late 20th century (anyone else remember their ICQ number?)

For a non-profit, $50m can go surprisingly far if you are sensible. I've seen talk of them having only 7 employees. Which seems not entirely unreasonable. It's not like they need marketing and sales etc...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

ian

  • feat. Undead Jess & Finestre, Queen of Hell
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #73 on: January 18, 2021, 10:10:13 am »
Yes, but there are lots of platforms used by niche groups, and a few platforms used by lots of people. Scaling up to Whatsapp levels is a money-intensive process. And then you start to need sales, marketing, customer support, sales support, legal, expertise, developers, QA engineers, sysops, scrum-masters, project managers, finance and accounting, payroll, HR, technical writers, training the usual layers of management for all that, and then all the hardware and hosting and capex and opex, from pay for cloud or datacentre hosting to the PC on someone's desk, not to mention the costs of the data, licensing, etc. There's more, I'm sure, but I'm still on my first cup of coffee.

These days, I'm responsible for a very niche platform, and that eats double-figure millions in direct costs without accounting for much of the above.
Support the Great Surrey Bear Census 2020

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #74 on: January 18, 2021, 11:31:48 am »
Starting with the first lockdown last March, Mrs. road-runner has been teaching piano online. All but one of her students have Whatsapp, the other uses Skype. She is now in the process of moving their lessons over to Signal, as each has their next lesson, so the process will take all of this week.