Author Topic: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.  (Read 3462 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #75 on: January 18, 2021, 12:20:32 pm »
I don't think that the number of people who care about privacy is small at all.  Ask people if they'd leave a webcam running 24x7 n their bedroom or bathroom for instance and you'd struggle to find more than a small few. However, when it comes to software and personal data sharing people have a blind spot because 1: they don't really understand the consequences, 2: they don't actually believe the facts and 3: they truly believe that they are getting something special for nothing. 
At the moment and in those words. But don't you think the next generation Alexa etc will have a camera? You'll be able to communicate with it by smiling and waving! Put it in the kitchen, it will see you've used the next to last tin of beans and automatically add that to your supermarket order. If you put it in your kid's bedroom to keep an eye on them, video baby/toddler monitors having been around for quite some while, at what stage do you take it out? Put it in your own bedroom, it'll alert you that you put on the last clean shirt this morning and now you need to load the washing machine, which it has already set to the appropriate programme. At the moment it lacks a hook to make it as enmeshed in life as messaging apps, but perhaps internet shopping and home security apps will be that.
Faster than a walk, slower than a train, often slightly higher than a person. (David Byrne)

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #76 on: January 18, 2021, 12:31:19 pm »
I'm in a state now where I have telegram, signal, discord, irc, and twitter. Some people I know are on all of them, some I talk to only via one of them. It reminds me a lot of the instant messenger wars of the late 20th century (anyone else remember their ICQ number?)

I think this is the optimal outcome.  A hetrogenous mix of broadly overlapping systems means that they compete on features and usability.  A Facebook-style monopoly means they carefully titrate the level of shiverts, algorithmic enragement and so on the the point where users almost, but not quite, stop using it.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #77 on: January 18, 2021, 12:38:03 pm »
I don't think that the number of people who care about privacy is small at all.  Ask people if they'd leave a webcam running 24x7 n their bedroom or bathroom for instance and you'd struggle to find more than a small few. However, when it comes to software and personal data sharing people have a blind spot because 1: they don't really understand the consequences, 2: they don't actually believe the facts and 3: they truly believe that they are getting something special for nothing. 
At the moment and in those words. But don't you think the next generation Alexa etc will have a camera? You'll be able to communicate with it by smiling and waving! Put it in the kitchen, it will see you've used the next to last tin of beans and automatically add that to your supermarket order. If you put it in your kid's bedroom to keep an eye on them, video baby/toddler monitors having been around for quite some while, at what stage do you take it out? Put it in your own bedroom, it'll alert you that you put on the last clean shirt this morning and now you need to load the washing machine, which it has already set to the appropriate programme. At the moment it lacks a hook to make it as enmeshed in life as messaging apps, but perhaps internet shopping and home security apps will be that.

So, you have hit the nail on the head.  If you sell a loss of privacy as a perceived benefit people tend to look past what they might be losing or simply not value it enough if they do care.  Or, they might simply not understand the consequences of what they are losing.

This is how the snake oil salesman succeeds and has done so for centuries.  We all have a choice but so few of us are informed enough when making that choice in my opinion.

Morat

  • I tried to HTFU but something went ping :(
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #78 on: January 18, 2021, 02:45:26 pm »
I'm pleased to say that I'm now contributing to the load test of Signal and several friends have taken up the invitation.
Tandem Stoker, CX bike abuser (slicks and tarmac) and owner of a sadly neglected MTB.

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #79 on: January 24, 2021, 10:29:08 am »
I’ve used Signal for quite some time but few of my contacts do. It seems that there are privacy issues that make it impossible for the desktop app to simply scoop all your phone contacts :( This means that the desktop app is virtually useless, which I suspect puts many people off switching.

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #80 on: January 24, 2021, 12:52:55 pm »
But I continue to maintain that scooping all your contacts is the biggest privacy issue with WhatsApp? Knowing whom I know is, I think, the Holy Grail of tracking me and my interests, and it's something that we all give away quite readily. There's little point in my trying to keep my contact details and information private if all my friends are industriously uploading the same to Facebook.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #81 on: January 24, 2021, 12:58:27 pm »
I’ve used Signal for quite some time but few of my contacts do. It seems that there are privacy issues that make it impossible for the desktop app to simply scoop all your phone contacts :( This means that the desktop app is virtually useless, which I suspect puts many people off switching.

What does the "Import all Signal groups and contacts from your mobile device" button do, then?

Obviously it only imports contacts who have Signal, but there wouldn't be any point in the desktop application having the details of those who didn't.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2021, 03:41:57 pm »
I’ve used Signal for quite some time but few of my contacts do. It seems that there are privacy issues that make it impossible for the desktop app to simply scoop all your phone contacts :( This means that the desktop app is virtually useless, which I suspect puts many people off switching.

What does the "Import all Signal groups and contacts from your mobile device" button do, then?

Obviously it only imports contacts who have Signal, but there wouldn't be any point in the desktop application having the details of those who didn't.

I know Signal is somewhat pointless unless both parties are using it, but I quite like it as an app so I have it set as my default regardless, even though most of my texts are sent to people that don’t have it. It would be convenient to be able to do the same with the desktop app, given that the app itself can access your contacts on the phone. Why can’t it do the same for the desktop?

I’ve noticed a few notifications recently telling me that some contacts have switched to Signal, but not many.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2021, 04:14:07 pm »
I’ve used Signal for quite some time but few of my contacts do. It seems that there are privacy issues that make it impossible for the desktop app to simply scoop all your phone contacts :( This means that the desktop app is virtually useless, which I suspect puts many people off switching.

What does the "Import all Signal groups and contacts from your mobile device" button do, then?

Obviously it only imports contacts who have Signal, but there wouldn't be any point in the desktop application having the details of those who didn't.

I know Signal is somewhat pointless unless both parties are using it, but I quite like it as an app so I have it set as my default regardless, even though most of my texts are sent to people that don’t have it. It would be convenient to be able to do the same with the desktop app, given that the app itself can access your contacts on the phone. Why can’t it do the same for the desktop?

Ah, I looked this up to see if it could function as a replacement for MySMS.  It appears to be a deliberate decision not to go to lots of effort to provide functionality that goes against their privacy-first philosophy.  I'm not sure I agree with that, because making it more convenient for people to use Signal would surely be a good thing, but I sympathise with not wanting to put effort into developing the phone-as-SMS-gateway function.

I'd rather they put the effort into an Android/IOS version of the desktop app (as it were), so you can use the same account as your phone from your fondleslab.

But only after they allow for video calls in landscape mode.  FFS, why is that not a thing?
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2021, 04:40:31 pm »
iirc WhatsApp doesn't do portrait mode video calls either.  Horribly annoying when we have the mllePB family call every week.

We'll be moving to a different pro under soon though.

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #85 on: January 24, 2021, 05:50:08 pm »
It took Mrs. road-runner a week to migrate all her students, students' parents and family groups (her side and mine, two separate groups) from Whatsapp to Signal, all except her sister who doesn't want to.

On Friday she deleted Whatsapp from her iPhone.

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #86 on: January 24, 2021, 06:01:35 pm »

Ah, I looked this up to see if it could function as a replacement for MySMS.  It appears to be a deliberate decision not to go to lots of effort to provide functionality that goes against their privacy-first philosophy.  I'm not sure I agree with that, because making it more convenient for people to use Signal would surely be a good thing, but I sympathise with not wanting to put effort into developing the phone-as-SMS-gateway function.

I'd rather they put the effort into an Android/IOS version of the desktop app (as it were), so you can use the same account as your phone from your fondleslab.

But only after they allow for video calls in landscape mode.  FFS, why is that not a thing?

Signal started life as encrypted sms before changing to instant messaging etc.

Not sure what you mean by the Android / iOS bit.  My account is my Android phone number and I interchangeably use my phone app, my iPad app or the desktop app on this account.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #87 on: January 24, 2021, 08:18:34 pm »
Not sure what you mean by the Android / iOS bit.  My account is my Android phone number and I interchangeably use my phone app, my iPad app or the desktop app on this account.

There doesn't appear to be a way to persuade the Android app on my Android tablet to use the account of my Android phone.  It wants to create its own account based on the number of the SIM in the tablet.

It appears that iPads have special status in this respect: https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007320551-Linked-Devices
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #88 on: January 24, 2021, 08:22:11 pm »
WhatsApp on this tablet wanted the number of my mobile with WhatsApp installed.  It worked fine but then WhatsApp on the phone was not available on the same number.  It takes seconds to switch though depending upon which device I wish to use.

We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2021, 08:33:03 pm »
Well, I do find it difficult to trust the sincerity of a statement from WhatsApp given that originally it was going to remain completely separate from Facebook.

Who knows the future for Signal but provided we maintain healthy cynicism of stated motives we should be fine.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #91 on: January 24, 2021, 08:38:02 pm »
WhatsApp on this tablet wanted the number of my mobile with WhatsApp installed.  It worked fine but then WhatsApp on the phone was not available on the same number.  It takes seconds to switch though depending upon which device I wish to use.
Whatsapp say your account may be blocked if you frequently switch between devices.

Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #92 on: January 24, 2021, 08:42:23 pm »
That's fine.  I am in the process of migrating to Signal anyway.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Change to Whatsapp T&C's - all data to be shared with Facebook.
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2021, 10:03:23 am »
Seems all is not necessarily what has been reported...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jan/24/is-it-time-to-leave-whatsapp-and-is-signal-the-answer
So Signal is nothing to do with Elon Musk. Instead:
Quote
Signal is supported by the non-profit Signal Foundation, set up in 2018 by WhatsApp founder Brian Acton and security researcher (and Signal Messenger CEO) Moxie Marlinspike,
It's someone with an even better crazy name!
Faster than a walk, slower than a train, often slightly higher than a person. (David Byrne)