Home energy saving tips /ideas...

[Jaded]

How about two dishwashers, one for waiting-to-be-washed, one clean stuff. Few cupboards needed.

Needs four: one for waiting, one for washing, one for clean, one for best.

Surely moving the stuff between them takes loads of time and effort.

[Cudzoziemiec]

How about two dishwashers, one for waiting-to-be-washed, one clean stuff. Few cupboards needed.

Needs four: one for waiting, one for washing, one for clean, one for best.

Surely moving the stuff between them takes loads of time and effort.

Good point: need a robot.

But then the robot can do the washing up.

[Mr Larrington]

How about two dishwashers, one for waiting-to-be-washed, one clean stuff. Few cupboards needed.

Needs four: one for waiting, one for washing, one for clean, one for best.

Surely moving the stuff between them takes loads of time and effort.

Good point: need a robot.

But then the robot can do the washing up.

Monkey butlers FTW!

[ian]

The old joke in Chinese kitchens is that the oven is where the second wok is stored (the first wok never leaving the stove top). I don't remember seeing a dishwasher in a Chinese kitchen (admittedly HK, where the average kitchen was the size of a cupboard) but I feel sure it would be used for pot storage.

[phantasmagoriana]

A flat we rented a few years back had a full-size dishwasher in a tiny kitchen with hardly any storage space. As I was an unenlightened anti-dishwasher type at the time, it was used purely as a storage cupboard.

[andyoxon]

The quickest dishwasher cycle may not be the most efficient. Check the specs.

Unfortunately, our Bosch d/w manual has no power consumption values or cycle times.  I manually timed the Eco50 on our machine at 3h15mins! 

[Kim]

The quickest dishwasher cycle may not be the most efficient. Check the specs.

Unfortunately, our Bosch d/w manual has no power consumption values or cycle times.  I manually timed the Eco50 on our machine at 3h15mins!

This is what plug-in power meters (and fitting the sockets for whitegoods in an easily-accessed adjacent cupboard) are for.

[Tod28]

That's the cycle you want for minimum water & power consumption. Ours gets put on every 3-4 days (depending on plate supply) last thing at night. Tea and coffee cups go in then as well. If grubby in between they get a quick rinse with the hot water in the kettle.

Quote from Bosch Manual

"The standard programme (eco 50) is the standard cleaning cycle to which the information in the label
and the fiche relates, that this programme is suitable to clean normally soiled tableware, and that it is
the most efficient programme in terms of combined energy and water consumption"

0.92 kWh and 6 l water per cycle. The annual consumption for the energy labels is based on 280 cycles per year or 5.5 times a week!!

[andyoxon]

The quickest dishwasher cycle may not be the most efficient. Check the specs.

Unfortunately, our Bosch d/w manual has no power consumption values or cycle times.  I manually timed the Eco50 on our machine at 3h15mins!

This is what plug-in power meters (and fitting the sockets for whitegoods in an easily-accessed adjacent cupboard) are for.

I'm on it with the Tapo 110.      Rang Bosch they have no power info for the diferent cycles (on our machine) 'any longer' - though they said the 3h15m program would actually use less power, than the "Quick 45".  Going to try and see what the plug comes up with. 

[Mrs Pingu]

I would not want manky plates and pans sitting around for 3 days, nor do I have enough pans to be able do that. From the dishwashers I've used in holiday homes they seem to take hours and I've always failed to see how they can use less energy to take hours to wash some stuff I could wash in a a bowl in 10 mins. The only time I leave the tap running is when I'm rinsing glasses.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I would not want manky plates and pans sitting around for 3 days, nor do I have enough pans to be able do that.

Definitely this!

From the dishwashers I've used in holiday homes they seem to take hours and I've always failed to see how they can use less energy to take hours to wash some stuff I could wash in a a bowl in 10 mins. The only time I leave the tap running is when I'm rinsing glasses.

Probably this too.

[andyoxon]

...

This is what plug-in power meters (and fitting the sockets for whitegoods in an easily-accessed adjacent cupboard) are for.

Or not so easy...  Tapo plug doesn't fit.  It may be possible to swivel the filter(?) out the way, but hey ho...

PXL_dw1 by a oxon, on Flickr

[Kim]

Ah, the old "let's make the dishwasher more space-efficient by externalising the bulk of the solenoid valve" trick.  One of Stan's finest works, that one.   

For our washing machine, I've used an extension lead in the socket on the wall behind to bring the power round to the large otherwise useless gap by the side where the waste pipe is.  Tasmota smart plug (monitoring power use, counting the number of cycles run and sending a message over MQTT to make things go 'DING!' when the cycle ends) between the extension lead and the washing machine's power cable, where it can be easily reached and isolated if needed.

[ian]

Our dishwasher rarely needs more than the 29-minute cycle – we give it the 1-hour cycle every week or two or when it has a lot of stuff in it. No idea how much energy it uses, but I mostly don't care, it's pence. It only heats the water it needs and seems quite frugal in vigorously splashing around what water it uses. Plus I'm lazy and have zero wish to wash dishes by hand, since I spent my formative years always washing the pots, My parents firmly viewed children primarily as labour-saving accessories.

[quixoticgeek]

My kitchen is tiny (I have to walk through it sideways), so making space for a dishwasher is proving complicated.

I am seriously considering getting one of these:

https://daan.tech/eur/discover-bob-mini-dishwasher/

99% of the time I'm cooking for one. So a small dishwasher would make perfect sense. No need for the plates sitting for 3 days until it's full. No running it at half capacity etc...

J

[Kim]

That's cute.

I installed a counter-top dishwasher (compete with the afore-mentioned externalised solenoid valve, which necessitated cutting a large hole in the surface) for a disabled friend who lives alone some years ago, and it was revolutionary.  It's a sensible size for 1-2 people's worth of washing-up, but they're a lot more expensive than full-sized ones.

[Ham]

The quickest dishwasher cycle may not be the most efficient. Check the specs.

Unfortunately, our Bosch d/w manual has no power consumption values or cycle times.  I manually timed the Eco50 on our machine at 3h15mins!

This is what plug-in power meters (and fitting the sockets for whitegoods in an easily-accessed adjacent cupboard) are for.

Funny you should mention that. I have just (!!) managed to open a conversation with Mrs Ham about energy consumption on The Holy Washing Machine (a VERY dangerous topic). Apparently she saw something about the energy consumption on facebook, which permitted exploration. Historically, the very concept that a longer cycle might be more efficient in terms of power was consigned the lunatic fringe. I had also moved the power socket from behind the machine relatively recently, so I could plug in my power meter.

Interesting results, but short version, the 40 degree cycle at 3 hours took 1/3 energy of the 1.25 hour.

[giropaul]

I grew up with no dishwasher, no tumble drier. In my 70s I’ve still never had either. We don’t find old fashioned washing up a chore, 5 minutes at the most. Washing goes outside on the line or in the airing cupboard.
Watching the smart meter ( when it worked) illustrated that heating water is probably the most electron greedy thing that normally happens in a house ( unless you have electric heating)
Am I missing something?

[ian]

Look, I have PTSD from my parents using me as a labour-saving device as a child. Just talking about it could be a trigger.

[Kim]

We don’t find old fashioned washing up a chore, 5 minutes at the most.

5 minutes of washing up is fine.  More than a draining-board-full rapidly becomes a chore, because then you have to waste time drying things to make room for the rest.  And by that point your lower back is aching because whoever installed the cupboard under the sink didn't account for knee space for people with unequal leg lengths.  Like tumble-driers, dishwashers make a lot more sense for bigger households.

Since there's just two of us, I see little need for a dishwasher, at least while I'm able-handed and around to do most of it.  If barakta were on her own more often it would be a no-brainer (there being countless more fulfilling ways she can over-use her arms).

[quixoticgeek]

5 minutes of washing up is fine.  More than a draining-board full rapidly becomes a chore, because then you have to waste time drying things to make room for the rest.  And by that point your lower back is aching because whoever installed the cupboard under the sink didn't account for knee space for people with unequal leg lengths.  Dishwashers make a lot more sense for bigger households.

Since there's just two of us, I see little need for a dishwasher, at least while I'm able-handed and around to do most of it.  If barakta were on her own more often it would be a no-brainer (there being countless more fulfilling ways she can over-use her arms).

Dishwasher uses less water. Meaning less power to heat it. Various studies have shown a dishwasher is more efficient than hand washing.

J

[Kim]

Dishwasher uses less water. Meaning less power to heat it. Various studies have shown a dishwasher is more efficient than hand washing.

Does that include the embedded cost of making the dishwasher?


(It's academic for us - there's nowhere to put one, unless we got rid of the microwave and replaced it with a counter-top unit, which would be a serious own-goal in terms of energy use.)

[Diver300]

I grew up with no dishwasher, no tumble drier. In my 70s I’ve still never had either. We don’t find old fashioned washing up a chore, 5 minutes at the most. Washing goes outside on the line or in the airing cupboard.
Watching the smart meter ( when it worked) illustrated that heating water is probably the most electron greedy thing that normally happens in a house ( unless you have electric heating)
Am I missing something?

The energy needed to run a dishwasher cycle could only heat a small quantity of water. Around 13 litres for a newish machine, maybe 20 for an older one, heated to 60 °C.
Quite sensibly, domestic dishwashers are designed to use little water and energy, and are prepared to spend hours swirling the same water around to save energy, just as Ham has seen with washing machines.
https://inthewash.co.uk/dishwashers/most-economical-dishwashers-in-the-uk/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09vyy6h from 19:30 onwards applies.

[mrcharly-YHT]

The equation applies to washing clothes.

Seriously, washing clothes by hand uses a *lot* of water compared to using a machine. Living on a boat when getting more water is a two hour chore motoring down the river and back concentrates the mind somewhat.

I did have a table top manual thingy - it worked on the principle of a sealed container that tumbled the clothes as you cranked it. Being sealed, adding hot water pressurised it and improved the washing effect. Still used a lot more water than a machine (which I didn't have onboard, for years we did laundry by taking bags into a commercial laundrette).

[Cudzoziemiec]

I know some people who live on a canal boat. They've been on it for 30 years now. They have a filter, four layers of charcoal, which can take a bucketful of canal water and turn it into something drinkable. It takes about one hour to filter one litre and has a capacity of 12 litres, which doesn't sound much, but they say it's enough for drinking water for two.

So on that principle, it should be possible to install a higher capacity but lower quality filter to was clothes in canal water?