Home energy saving tips /ideas...

[robgul]

Hive here too - with some of their wifi TRVs that we use to isolate a couple of rooms that we don't use during the day and another in our bedroom that just opens up for a while in the morning and in the late evening (the main heating does, of course, have to be on when the TRV time windows are in force) - and we keep doors closed.

All part of the efforts to control energy consumption - along with some Hive lightbulbs and plug/sockets.

Optimum location for the thermostat seems to be half way up the stairs.

Works a treat.

[Pickled Onion]

My, it's cold out.  I have been out since 5 and the indoor temperature has dropped by more than 1^oC an hour.  At that rate, it will be below 10^oC in the morning.  Obviously it won't, as the temperature differential narrows, but 13^oC is likely.

It was 5.6° indoors when I got up this morning, and 2.4° when I got back from work. Only just managed to bring the temp up to something reasonable.

Do you live in a tent?

You got it on the second guess - on a narrowboat. With a good 50mm of snow on top of the solar panels, I don't have the electricity to run the central heating pump, so relying on solid fuel only.

[rogerzilla]

I'm cold with the CH thermostat set to 21.  And I have on a T-shirt, fleece, dressing gown AND hat.  I think the stat is in a warmer part of the room than the sofa is.

The stove works better than this.

[Pickled Onion]

Someone upthread mentioned a fan to circulate the warm air that would otherwise collect at the highest point. I have a small fan, and it makes a difference.

I'm thinking of molishing something more efficient, my feet are very cold under the desk but the thermometer (high up) is reading over 23 degrees. Perhaps using a computer fan, run off a USB power bank, fixed into a plastic funnel, attached to a length of PVC pipe running from ceiling to floor. What does the panel reckon?

[Kim]

I recall someone molishing an apparatus for a workshop using a large cardboard tube (sort of thing industrial quantities of fabric might be supplied on) and a conveniently sized fan.

I'd suggest that funnels are a bad idea; a larger diameter tube will allow the fan to operate more efficiently.

Computer fans usually run from 12V, so a 5V USB power supply isn't ideal.  You probably disposed of a suitable wall-wart three weeks ago when tidying up.

[Mrs Pingu]

Get one of those heated monoboots 

[Pingu]

Someone upthread mentioned a fan to circulate the warm air that would otherwise collect at the highest point. I have a small fan, and it makes a difference.

I'm thinking of molishing something more efficient, my feet are very cold under the desk but the thermometer (high up) is reading over 23 degrees. Perhaps using a computer fan, run off a USB power bank, fixed into a plastic funnel, attached to a length of PVC pipe running from ceiling to floor. What does the panel reckon?

[quixoticgeek]

The flat here is connected to the district heating (via a heat exchanger in the basement) and is plumbed together with all the floors below me. Each radiator has a thermostatic valve, but it's basically a set and forget. In theory I could turn it down when I go out, and turn it back up when I get home, but that is a pain with 3 main radiators to fettle.

I'm trying to work out if there is some sort of controllable TRV replacement that I could use instead. Would allow for a finer control of the temp.

J

[Mrs Pingu]

QG, I have questions:
A) if the heat is being made anyway what benefit is there to turning it down when you're out?
B) how does charging for district heating work, does everyone connected pay a flat rate per m3 of home or something?

[Diver300]

The flat here is connected to the district heating (via a heat exchanger in the basement) and is plumbed together with all the floors below me. Each radiator has a thermostatic valve, but it's basically a set and forget. In theory I could turn it down when I go out, and turn it back up when I get home, but that is a pain with 3 main radiators to fettle.

I'm trying to work out if there is some sort of controllable TRV replacement that I could use instead. Would allow for a finer control of the temp.

J

Honeywell Evohome.

Those can replace a TRV without letting the water out.

[Mrs Pingu]

You can even get a district heating kit https://www.robertdyas.co.uk/trv-district-heating-starter-pack

Also, I noticed that Shelly do Smart TRV's these days if you want to molish your own.

[Kim]

Replacement TRV head actuators are available in everything from "normal TRV head with built-in power resistor" to "internet-of-shit Devil's-Radio-enabled smart things" from the usual suspects.  As ever, it depends on how standard the mounting on your valves is, budget, and your enthusiasm for entrusting control to someone else's computer.

[Cudzoziemiec]

QG, I have questions:
A) if the heat is being made anyway what benefit is there to turning it down when you're out?
B) how does charging for district heating work, does everyone connected pay a flat rate per m3 of home or something?

No idea how it works for QG, but where I lived in Poland many years ago, the heating charge was based on a sort of column of coloured water thing that was attached to each radiator and gradually evaporated. This figure was then put through a complicated algorithm taking into account what floor you were on, whether you were a corner flat, etc (so corner flats paid less per mm of evaporated water, or whatever it was, because they needed more heating to compensate for the greater external wall area).

[Pickled Onion]

I recall someone molishing an apparatus for a workshop using a large cardboard tube (sort of thing industrial quantities of fabric might be supplied on) and a conveniently sized fan.

I'd suggest that funnels are a bad idea; a larger diameter tube will allow the fan to operate more efficiently.

Computer fans usually run from 12V, so a 5V USB power supply isn't ideal.  You probably disposed of a suitable wall-wart three weeks ago when tidying up.

Wall-warts I do not have, but 12V I do, I had assumed wrongly they were run off the 5V. That makes it easier. Was thinking 50mm-ish waste pipe tubing, but the cardboard sounds like a good idea. I would cut off most of the funnel to make it match the tube.

[Tod28]

You may be better off with a "blower" (centrigal/radial) than a "fan" (axial) to overcome the back pressure in the tube. Plenty on Amazon/Fleabay. As found in most extractor hoods to vent through ducting.

[FifeingEejit]

Puting the thermostato n the floor next to the window of a south facing room seems to have been a bad idea

25c at head height, 18 at floor level, and not rising...

[chrisbainbridge]

I bought a couple of fan things off the internet a few years ago which fitted onto standard radiators with a temperature sensor. When it saw a rise in temp it turned on the fan and sucked or blew air through the radiator gently and quietly. Absolutely brilliant. Sadly they seem to have stopped making them.

[quixoticgeek]

QG, I have questions:
A) if the heat is being made anyway what benefit is there to turning it down when you're out?
B) how does charging for district heating work, does everyone connected pay a flat rate per m3 of home or something?

No idea how it works for QG, but where I lived in Poland many years ago, the heating charge was based on a sort of column of coloured water thing that was attached to each radiator and gradually evaporated. This figure was then put through a complicated algorithm taking into account what floor you were on, whether you were a corner flat, etc (so corner flats paid less per mm of evaporated water, or whatever it was, because they needed more heating to compensate for the greater external wall area).

So. Until a year or so ago, we had the column of coloured gel like stuff bolted to the radiator. And once a year they came and took one out, and put another in. Now we have electronic devices in each radiator which I assume tell a central box somewhere.

In terms of billing. The building gets a bill based on volume of hot water that goes into the basement heat exchanger. Then the 48 or so apartments in the building get a bill for their share of the total. Based on the numbers from the radiator measuring device. So if the radiator thingy says I used 100 of what ever the units are, and the total number of units used by the building is 10000, then I get a bill for (100/10000) X total bill for the building.

So I do get a bill based on how much heat I use, and thus having the heating on when I'm at the office seems silly. If I can have better control of it.

J

[quixoticgeek]

Honeywell Evohome.

Those can replace a TRV without letting the water out.

Do they require a network connection to an external service to operate or can they be used completely stand alone?

You can even get a district heating kit https://www.robertdyas.co.uk/trv-district-heating-starter-pack

Also, I noticed that Shelly do Smart TRV's these days if you want to molish your own.

Same question.

Replacement TRV head actuators are available in everything from "normal TRV head with built-in power resistor" to "internet-of-shit Devil's-Radio-enabled smart things" from the usual suspects.  As ever, it depends on how standard the mounting on your valves is, budget, and your enthusiasm for entrusting control to someone else's computer.

Aye. The difficulty is in finding one that doesn't rely on a 3rd party keeping their servers on line for you to have heat.

There are some which have a relatively open ZigBee interface. I'm considering giving one a go.

J

[MikeFromLFE]

I bought a couple of fan things off the internet a few years ago which fitted onto standard radiators with a temperature sensor. When it saw a rise in temp it turned on the fan and sucked or blew air through the radiator gently and quietly. Absolutely brilliant. Sadly they seem to have stopped making them.

I've got one of these on one of the living room radiators - in the part of the room with a relatively high ceiling. Possibly bought a following a recommended hereabouts.
Yes, it is an excellent thing. Simple and effective.
Ours has become slightly more noticeable - possibly one of the fans are giving out. The fans seem to be bog standard computer fans so may be replaceable, but if the sensor goes, I'd guess that's curtains.

[rogerzilla]

There are stove fans that presumably use the Peltier effect to power themselves.  They look a bit ugly though, and I quite like the heat distribution as it is.

[Diver300]

Honeywell Evohome.

Those can replace a TRV without letting the water out.

Do they require a network connection to an external service to operate or can they be used completely stand alone?

They can be use completely stand-alone.

The valves have batteries and communicate with the controller. The controller is mains powered* and the controller tell you if it's lost communication with any valve, or the valve has low batteries.

The controller has an optional WiFi if you want to run it remotely, but all the control and scheduling is done locally. A change of scheduling can be done remotely. It uses WiFi to pick up outside temperature but that's not vital.

You can have temperature sensors that aren't on the radiator valves but they are as expensive as the valves, which come with temperature sensors. You can also have controllers to control existing motorised valves for underfloor or hot water.

*Well it has rechargeable batteries but they only last an hour or so.

[mrcharly-YHT]

My, it's cold out.  I have been out since 5 and the indoor temperature has dropped by more than 1^oC an hour.  At that rate, it will be below 10^oC in the morning.  Obviously it won't, as the temperature differential narrows, but 13^oC is likely.

It was 5.6° indoors when I got up this morning, and 2.4° when I got back from work. Only just managed to bring the temp up to something reasonable.

Do you live in a tent?

You got it on the second guess - on a narrowboat. With a good 50mm of snow on top of the solar panels, I don't have the electricity to run the central heating pump, so relying on solid fuel only.

That is getting too marginal for power for my tastes.
I switched boats and moorings a few times (ended up on a mooring with mains, so, luxury).

Initially on a riverbank with no facilities - so reliant on solid fuel stove, gas bottles, a PV and motoring to waterpoints for power.

Remember a miserable evening arriving home late after weekend away - gas wouldn't run, so no hot water or cooking. Water pipes frozen. It was several hours before the crappy stove heated the place up enough to be bearable, and I still didn't have any hot food.

We dealt with the floor-ceiling temp gradient on the big boat by fitting a row of finrads at floor level, under a bench. Insulation directed the heat out the front of the bench.

[Cudzoziemiec]

QG, I have questions:
A) if the heat is being made anyway what benefit is there to turning it down when you're out?
B) how does charging for district heating work, does everyone connected pay a flat rate per m3 of home or something?

No idea how it works for QG, but where I lived in Poland many years ago, the heating charge was based on a sort of column of coloured water thing that was attached to each radiator and gradually evaporated. This figure was then put through a complicated algorithm taking into account what floor you were on, whether you were a corner flat, etc (so corner flats paid less per mm of evaporated water, or whatever it was, because they needed more heating to compensate for the greater external wall area).

So. Until a year or so ago, we had the column of coloured gel like stuff bolted to the radiator. And once a year they came and took one out, and put another in. Now we have electronic devices in each radiator which I assume tell a central box somewhere.

In terms of billing. The building gets a bill based on volume of hot water that goes into the basement heat exchanger. Then the 48 or so apartments in the building get a bill for their share of the total. Based on the numbers from the radiator measuring device. So if the radiator thingy says I used 100 of what ever the units are, and the total number of units used by the building is 10000, then I get a bill for (100/10000) X total bill for the building.

So I do get a bill based on how much heat I use, and thus having the heating on when I'm at the office seems silly. If I can have better control of it.

J

Interesting that you're only just getting the coloured gel replaced with electronic devices, as I know some places were using them way back then – 2006. It all varied from estate to estate. I don't know if the calculation methods also varied.

[rogerzilla]

Just for comedy value, the still-valid EPC for Casa Zilla says the estimated yearly energy cost is

(click to show/hide)

£573

It's really about £2,450, ignoring the £400 support this winter.

More to the point, the various suggested improvements to get it from a C to a B rating are STILL not worth it in the slightest.  Even at 5x the energy cost, the payback periods are at least 20 years.