Home energy saving tips /ideas...

[Mrs Pingu]

Going back to the article, this is one of the most interesting bits IMO:

Two competing heating systems are being tested inside: an electric-based system utilising infrared panels, some of which are disguised as ceiling coving, as well as a water-based system that uses heated skirting boards combined with an air source heat pump.

Is it more efficient to use electricity to heat the air directly, or to use air to heat water which in turn heats the air? We shall, perhaps, find out.

The point in those infrared panels is that they heat the humans directly with radiation, rather than through conduction by heating the air.  So you feel warm in a colder room, which uses less energy than heating the whole room.  I'm sceptical for Stupid Lungs reasons, but I've never spent significant time in a room with that sort of heating.

I have also been sceptical of IR heating. If you used it as the only source of heat in your home, would it be damp & mouldy?

[Cudzoziemiec]

Going back to the article, this is one of the most interesting bits IMO:

Two competing heating systems are being tested inside: an electric-based system utilising infrared panels, some of which are disguised as ceiling coving, as well as a water-based system that uses heated skirting boards combined with an air source heat pump.

Is it more efficient to use electricity to heat the air directly, or to use air to heat water which in turn heats the air? We shall, perhaps, find out.

The point in those infrared panels is that they heat the humans directly with radiation, rather than through conduction by heating the air.  So you feel warm in a colder room, which uses less energy than heating the whole room.  I'm sceptical for Stupid Lungs reasons, but I've never spent significant time in a room with that sort of heating.

I have also been sceptical of IR heating. If you used it as the only source of heat in your home, would it be damp & mouldy?

My thoughts exactly. IME it's mostly encountered in outdoor spaces, such as pub terraces, where it makes sense (if you have to have heating at all). OTOH it surely heats solid objects (rather than specifically humans) so you'll still have warm walls, meaning mould and damp shouldn't be a problem.

[Mrs Pingu]

Mmm, I've just been reading some articles that say the same. Might be something worth trying as an experiment if you were getting an extension built for example.

[Flite]

When we had big commercial glasshouses, we used long IR radiant heaters hung from the roof ridges.
They were very good for warming the plants and the workers.
Obviously a damp environment, but not excessively so for plant disease reasons.
Very controllable. Off is off, on is instant. Very robust units.
The big downside is that they were fuelled by LPG, as only realistic choice in a rural area.
If there was a domestic friendly version, I'd certainly consider them, especially for a new-build or big renovation project.

[SteveC]

Re infrared heaters.
For a time, around the millennium, we used to hold our morris practices in a village hall which had them. Great for sitting around, but in midwinter when exercising grabbing a lungful of air which was basically at the same temperature as the outside (the hall was rather ramshackle) was not a good idea.

[HTFB]

My thoughts exactly. IME it's mostly encountered in outdoor spaces, such as pub terraces, where it makes sense (if you have to have heating at all). OTOH it surely heats solid objects (rather than specifically humans) so you'll still have warm walls, meaning mould and damp shouldn't be a problem.

Evaporating damp from a wall takes enough energy to provide the latent heat of evaporation, and you can't cheat physics.

The IR heating manufacturers are campaigning to get it recognised in the official category of low-carbon heating. It is not.

[Cudzoziemiec]

My thoughts exactly. IME it's mostly encountered in outdoor spaces, such as pub terraces, where it makes sense (if you have to have heating at all). OTOH it surely heats solid objects (rather than specifically humans) so you'll still have warm walls, meaning mould and damp shouldn't be a problem.

Evaporating damp from a wall takes enough energy to provide the latent heat of evaporation, and you can't cheat physics.

But is it more efficient to heat the water and the walls, leaving the air cold, or to heat the air? Of course damp walls are only one consideration of domestic heating and probably not at all the main one.

The IR heating manufacturers are campaigning to get it recognised in the official category of low-carbon heating. It is not.

Surely that's going to depend on the source of the heat?

[Cudzoziemiec]

i just keep remembering my parents had no central heating when we grew up, neither did their parents etc.

I claim exemption from this reasoning, on the basis that I wouldn't have lived if I'd been born before about 1976, and would therefore have been spared a lifetime of poor circulation in my hands and feet.

It's the same reasoning we all face, just means you have no experience of two parts of the trilemma: you can comply with Tory ideology (turn up the heating or be held responsible for black mould etc), be rich enough not to care about it, or fast-forward to an idyllic passivehouse future.

I can't remember precisely when I last saw ice (not frost) on the inside of the bedroom windows in the morning, but it was probably in the early 1980s. Definitely after 1976. By then I was definitely old enough to not find it fun.

It's just occurred to me that I have seen ice on the outside of the tent when camping, but never inside. So tents are obviously warmer than houses.

Or perhaps not.

[rogerzilla]

Been experimenting with the boiler flow temperature when it's only doing the rads, not the hot water cylinder.  To maintain a comfortable temperature when it's -3 outside, it needs to be turned up pretty high.  I don't have a clip-on pipe thermometer but I'd guess it's near 80 deg C.

This is a modern house with insulation to current standards and rads that are bigger than you find in most new houses.

Conclusions: low flow temps only work if you have laughably huge rads - and where can you fit them in small modern houses? - or you are willing to put up with a 17-18 deg living room.  If you're sitting at a laptop immobile all day, that's too cold.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Been experimenting with the boiler flow temperature when it's only doing the rads, not the hot water cylinder.  To maintain a comfortable temperature when it's -3 outside, it needs to be turned up pretty high.  I don't have a clip-on pipe thermometer but I'd guess it's near 80 deg C.

This is a modern house with insulation to current standards and rads that are bigger than you find in most new houses.

Conclusions: low flow temps only work if you have laughably huge rads - and where can you fit them in small modern houses? - or you are willing to put up with a 17-18 deg living room.  If you're sitting at a laptop immobile all day, that's too cold.

I agree about rad sizes.

Underfloor heating seems to be the answer.

17-18 seems over-hot to me. I'm not very well, but still, comfortable in about 16C.

[rogerzilla]

WHO recommend 21 deg C for a sitting room, which feels about right.  Younger people can tolerate less (and if I were able to potter about, far less would be fine) but I'm chained to the desk by the tyranny of Microsoft Teams.

[quixoticgeek]

WHO recommend 21 deg C for a sitting room, which feels about right.  Younger people can tolerate less (and if I were able to potter about, far less would be fine) but I'm chained to the desk by the tyranny of Microsoft Teams.

I thought WHO recommend 22°C?

17-18 would be decidedly chilly, wrapped in blankets unable to function levels of chilly. 16 even more so.

Last week the sun came out and the passive solar gain of my south facing windows meant that the flat warmed up beautifully. The heating switched off, and the flat was 24°C. It was beautiful for the hour or so the sun stayed out.

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

The World Health Organization in 1987 found that comfortable indoor temperatures between 18–24 °C (64–75 °F) were not associated with health risks for healthy adults with appropriate clothing, humidity, and other factors. For infants, elderly, and those with significant health problems, a minimum 20 °C (68 °F) was recommended. Temperatures lower than 16 °C (61 °F) with humidity above 65% were associated with respiratory hazards including allergies.[9][10]

The WHO's 2018 guidelines give a strong recommendation that a minimum of 18 °C (64 °F) is a "safe and well-balanced indoor temperature to protect the health of general populations during cold seasons", while a higher minimum may be necessary for vulnerable groups including children, the elderly, and people with cardiorespiratory disease and other chronic illnesses. The recommendation regarding risk of exposure to high indoor temperatures is only "conditional". Minimal-risk high temperatures range from about 21–30 °C (70–86 °F) depending on the region, with maximum acceptable temperatures between 25–32 °C (77–90 °F). [11] [12]

Wikipedia obvs

[Cudzoziemiec]

But also:

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language identifies room temperature as around 20–22 °C (68–72 °F),[1] while the Oxford English Dictionary states that it is "conventionally taken as about 20 °C (68 °F)".[2] The ideal room temperature may vary by place and culture; studies from Nigeria show a comfortable temperature range of 26–28 °C (79–82 °F), comfortably cool 24–26 °C (75–79 °F) and comfortably warm 28–30 °C (82–86 °F).[3] Owing to variations in humidity and (likely) clothing, recommendations for summer and winter may vary; a suggested typical range for summer is 23–25.5 °C (73–78 °F), with that for winter being 20–23.5 °C (68–74 °F).[4] Some studies have suggested that thermal comfort preferences of men and women may differ significantly, with women on average preferring higher ambient temperatures.[5][6][7]

In the recent past it was common for house temperatures to be kept below the comfort level; a 1978 UK study found average indoor home temperatures to be 15.8 °C (60.4 °F) while Japan in 1980 had median home temperatures of 13 °C (55 °F) to 15 °C (59 °F).[8]

which indicates cultural variation

[L CC]

Just reading this thread (which is fairly monocultural) shows there's individual variation.

22 would have me falling asleep.

[FifeingEejit]

I set the temp to 19
Tartan blanket sorts out the sitting still in front of telly chill.
The map room usually sits around 17 in the morning (tiny 2 panel heaters that seem nowhere near enough but were probably sized pre-combi) after a bit with me and the work laptop (running 100% constantly cos shit spec) it's up to 20 despite the room with the thermostat having been up to temp a while.

[De Sisti]

This is my current (Worcester Bosch Greenstar 30 si) boiler settings. My house is an old, small
two-bedroom terraced property. It has benefited from some new A+ rated double-glazed windows
last year. I generally set the thermostat to 19°c which normally keeps the house warm enough.

The hot water timer on the boiler has been switched off. The engineer who fitted it said that
function wasn't necessary, as without it on, hot water would only take a few seconds longer to arrive from the taps (and would possibly save a few pennies in the long-run). That was way back in January 2010.

Settings on radiator valves are at level II or  III (depending on which room it is located).

[Edit. Trickle vents on all windows are partially opened to aid airflow throughout the house and reduce humidity]

[phantasmagoriana]

I set the thermostat to 18 (6.30am-10.30pm) which seems fine. Previous flat (bigger rooms, higher ceilings, no insulation or double glazing) was generally at 19.5. We're using about £1.50 a day in gas at the moment (heating, hot water and hob), which doesn't seem too bad.

[MattH]

For heaters, there was a fairly interesting episode of "sliced bread" on the BBC talking about which portable heaters are the most energy efficient, spurred by the claims online for ceramic heaters.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001dxtx

Some of the methodology is a bit suspect, but it is interesting, especially talking about perceptions of warmth and how you are tempted to just "bump up" a heater's settings if you are getting direct heat, so it becomes less cost effective.

[TimC]

Blimey. My 800 sq ft old thatched cottage (decently secondary double glazed - primary in a modern bathroom extension), is quite hard to get above 20C in the current cold snap. I wouldn't have it that warm anyway; the living rooms are set to 17C, the bathroom 16C and upstairs (two bedrooms, one reached through the other) are set to 12C. That cost me £513 in electricity in December 2022 (I have no wet heating, gas or oil), and that's now gone up as I'm on Economy 7. I'm anticipating £600+ for January.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I set the thermostat to 18 (6.30am-10.30pm) which seems fine. Previous flat (bigger rooms, higher ceilings, no insulation or double glazing) was generally at 19.5. We're using about £1.50 a day in gas at the moment (heating, hot water and hob), which doesn't seem too bad.

That is very cheap.
I just checked, and over winter, we are using about £7  worth of oil a day. That is for a 5 bedroom detached house.

My SiL, in Oxfordshire, is shelling out £10 per day; and their house is smaller than ours.

[ScumOfTheRoad]

I saw a youtube video about a model of Chinese heaters intended for workshop use. They looked well enough engineered and the bloke was running off red diesel.
He broadly hinted that this would be a cheap way to heat your house.
In the video he was careful to drill a hole in the wall for the exhaust.

Me, I think this is good for workshops and garages. But for homes it is a recipe for CO poisoning and fires.
And running off red diesel in your home... tsk tsk tsk

BTW these heaters all seem to be the same model, just with different cases depending on the brand selling them.

[phantasmagoriana]

I set the thermostat to 18 (6.30am-10.30pm) which seems fine. Previous flat (bigger rooms, higher ceilings, no insulation or double glazing) was generally at 19.5. We're using about £1.50 a day in gas at the moment (heating, hot water and hob), which doesn't seem too bad.

That is very cheap.
I just checked, and over winter, we are using about £7  worth of oil a day. That is for a 5 bedroom detached house.

My SiL, in Oxfordshire, is shelling out £10 per day; and their house is smaller than ours.

Still on a fix from before the price hikes (this is only a 3 bedroom flat though). I'm not looking forward to this coming December when it ends! I'm torn between making the most of the heating while we can still afford it, and getting used to the cold in preparation...

[De Sisti]

I set the thermostat to 18 (6.30am-10.30pm) which seems fine. Previous flat (bigger rooms, higher ceilings, no insulation or double glazing) was generally at 19.5. We're using about £1.50 a day in gas at the moment (heating, hot water and hob), which doesn't seem too bad.

Very cheap. I'm paying about £5 per day for gas and I don't think I'm being extravagant with
my settings. Perhaps it's the Octopus tariff I have?

[Diver300]

And running off red diesel in your home... tsk tsk tsk

I was under the impression that red Diesel is legal heating. Oil heaters often use kerosene instead of red Diesel but there's not much difference in characteristic or price.

My parents' house was heated with red Diesel until they changed to gas. I remember having to clear the wax from the filter several times in the cold winter of 1978.