DNF rate

[Socks]

I was a volunteer at the first secret control.  Even without offering food and sleeping, quite a logistical exercise.  Organising the full event, route, controls, last minute road closures and diversions must be a major undertaking.   Easy enough to criticise, a lot harder to make it happen.

[chrisbainbridge]

I am out due to Covid.
However major parts of my training were devoted to hill combing as we knew that it was going to be hard this year and mandatory. Yes I would have walked 18%. I always do.
Danial told us what it was going to be like. We knew the previous failure rates. So , there has been some extra hills added in with extra time. The route as a whole hasn’t changed.
Please stop moaning flaneur.

[Peter]

It's certainly a very tough course but I think the heat may well have been the real deciding factor.  There have been bad spells of weather on previous LELs, notably 2009 when the rain did for a lot of people.  But this version has had pretty much incessant heat.

[Mr Larrington]

Chatting with a cheerful rider over dinner tonight, he reckoned the temperature had more effect than the Scenery, causing The Bulge to be a lot further back than previously thought.

[Rupert]

I suppose that if someone (at least one!) can do this ride on fixed then it must be do-able.

[billyam998]

I suppose that if someone (at least one!) can do this ride on fixed then it must be do-able.

And a barrow as well

Yes the route is doable and, I take a lot of accountability for my DNF - even though I'd managed a SR and a few other big rides my cycling / training lacked consistency this year.

That said and, without wanting to disregard the painful choices put upon Danial and, his team (together with the quite obvious weather issue) the event does seem to have moved away from what I first experienced in 2013, both in achievability and, entrants.
 Somehow it has morphed into a giant sportive with all the ugly issues sportives have. It is a great shame, to use Danials words " a minority are destroying something special with their attitude"

[Notfromrugby]

I have seen on Facebook pictures of the first people going through the last control... they look like proper cyclists... they don't carry 20 kg of extra fat and they travel light...
Maybe those who complain about the route should look at themselves in the mirror and they will understand why they found the route so hard.

#BMI

[mrcharly-YHT]

I have seen on Facebook pictures of the first people going through the last control... they look like proper cyclists... they don't carry 20 kg of extra fat and they travel light...
Maybe those who complain about the route should look at themselves in the mirror and they will understand why they found the route so hard.

#BMI

Flipping heck, you don't give up, do you?

Do we need comparative photos of all the DNFs so you can check their BMI?

[Notfromrugby]

I have seen on Facebook pictures of the first people going through the last control... they look like proper cyclists... they don't carry 20 kg of extra fat and they travel light...
Maybe those who complain about the route should look at themselves in the mirror and they will understand why they found the route so hard.

#BMI

Flipping heck, you don't give up, do you?

Do we need comparative photos of all the DNFs so you can check their BMI?

 

It's a sensitive topic, but it's relevant... far too many randonneurs put themselves through unimaginable physical stress in these long events, when they are really not that healthy to start with.

[ElyDave]

I have seen on Facebook pictures of the first people going through the last control... they look like proper cyclists... they don't carry 20 kg of extra fat and they travel light...
Maybe those who complain about the route should look at themselves in the mirror and they will understand why they found the route so hard.

#BMI

You really do think very little of your fellow cyclists don't you.  Or perhaps you don't consider them cyclists unless they conform to your specific vision.  Do you really think that those who ride bike with mudguards are setting themselves up to fail, for example, by carrying that extra weight, or are mudguards an indicator of a fat, unfit rider?

BTW, I'm under 70kg, BMI perfectly in the zone, i'd still struggle with the route even though this is one of my best ever years in terms of cycling.

[Paul H]

I have seen on Facebook pictures of the first people going through the last control... they look like proper cyclists... they don't carry 20 kg of extra fat and they travel light...
Maybe those who complain about the route should look at themselves in the mirror and they will understand why they found the route so hard.

#BMI

Flipping heck, you don't give up, do you?

Do we need comparative photos of all the DNFs so you can check their BMI?

 

It's a sensitive topic, but it's relevant... far too many randonneurs put themselves through unimaginable physical stress in these long events, when they are really not that healthy to start with.

I've been following four CTC types, who between them will be carrying enough excess to make a fifth proper cyclist and no doubt enough spares to make up a spare proper bike.
One packed on the first day with a reoccurring knee issue, a shame but he considered not starting, so not surprising.  The other three are well within the time limit and barring anything unexpected will finish.  Their objective is and always was to complete LEL within the time limit, isn't that what Audax is about? I suspect a proportion of DNF's had other objectives and have either overcooked trying to meet them, or decided not to carry on when doing so became impossible. I look at where and when some have packed and know my unathletic friends would have carried on.  I suspect the range of finishers will be a varied as the range of starters.

[Jaded]

I have seen on Facebook pictures of the first people going through the last control... they look like proper cyclists... they don't carry 20 kg of extra fat and they travel light...
Maybe those who complain about the route should look at themselves in the mirror and they will understand why they found the route so hard.

#BMI

Out of interest, given you are happy to bring up other cyclists health in this public forum, do you have a mental syndrome of some kind? Sometimes your posts display a lack of awareness that would benefit from you looking at yourself in the mirror.

[quixoticgeek]

I have seen on Facebook pictures of the first people going through the last control... they look like proper cyclists... they don't carry 20 kg of extra fat and they travel light...
Maybe those who complain about the route should look at themselves in the mirror and they will understand why they found the route so hard.

#BMI

Please take your fat shaming nonsense else where. It is not welcome here.

J

[Fidgetbuzz]

Just a pennorth from me about the route . 13 and 17 were broadly similar .. never actually going to edinburgh  and being 1400s. There were complaints about the Howardian hills .. but there are some people you can never please

Suddenly the Forth road bridge is available .. and there is a good control available at Dunfermline .. so lets make it a 1500 with something like 10 extra hours for 100kms .  Central Edinburgh , double crossing of the Forth bridge . 10 extra hours .. sounds like a no brainer .. so that was the decision in 2019, Back then we did not  expect it to roll over into 2022  and no way could it have even crossed our minds that Yad Moss would be closed 10 days before the start date., or that temperatures would be over 30 every day, all dsy.

Morphed into a giant sportive .. utter rubbish .. just read the paragraph above and now  look at the spread of the field  and the battle that is now going on for riders to finish in time .. nothing like a sportive

[Notfromrugby]

I have seen on Facebook pictures of the first people going through the last control... they look like proper cyclists... they don't carry 20 kg of extra fat and they travel light...
Maybe those who complain about the route should look at themselves in the mirror and they will understand why they found the route so hard.

#BMI

Flipping heck, you don't give up, do you?

Do we need comparative photos of all the DNFs so you can check their BMI?

 

It's a sensitive topic, but it's relevant... far too many randonneurs put themselves through unimaginable physical stress in these long events, when they are really not that healthy to start with.

I've been following four CTC types, who between them will be carrying enough excess to make a fifth proper cyclist and no doubt enough spares to make up a spare proper bike.
One packed on the first day with a reoccurring knee issue, a shame but he considered not starting, so not surprising.  The other three are well within the time limit and barring anything unexpected will finish.  Their objective is and always was to complete LEL within the time limit, isn't that what Audax is about? I suspect a proportion of DNF's had other objectives and have either overcooked trying to meet them, or decided not to carry on when doing so became impossible. I look at where and when some have packed and know my unathletic friends would have carried on.  I suspect the range of finishers will be a varied as the range of starters.

I am glad your friends are doing fine. Yes, I suppose finishing within the time limit is the ultimate goal, there might be even some who are not that interested to finish and just want the experience and that is fine too. I have done a bit of volunteering here and there at long events, didn't do LEL because I couldn't be arsed with the idea of getting Covid (as it turns out I got it in June, so I might just have been OK in August... digressing now). What I noticed more often than not, is that there is a large group of riders who base their timing around control closures. They tend to be visually less fit and/or older, as you would expect. Small variations on the predicted conditions easily cause them to go out of time.
There is nothing wrong with that, you buy your ticket you do your ride the way you can or want... there is nothing wrong until you go on the internet and start moaning about the route being too hard, the organiser being a sadist etc, essentially blaming others for your own shortcomings.

[abc123]

It was a great event, and I can't praise the organisational team enough. Devising such a long route and coping with the inevitable changes forced by circumstances is obviously very challenging, and I think the organiser did a great job.
My impression is that the high DNF rate was due to inexperienced riders who didn't really understand what they were taking on, and experienced riders who were hit with tough conditions; the first day was very hot and headwind. If you didn't manage to get in a good group, riding the fens would have been very tough, and if you didn't get sufficiently far north you would have quickly been on the back foot.
In a social media world, people who would in the past never have encountered Audax, see pictures of LEL and think "That looks like an adventure. I think I'll have a crack". If you read the LEL Facebook page it was striking that a number of entrants were not only Audax novices, but cycling novices; :"What sort of bike should I get to ride this event?"
Some people had a realistic view of the outcome. I spoke to the leader of a German team of five who were reduced to two riders by the latter stages. His blunt appraisal of his DNF was "I'm 100kg and in North Germany we have no hills".
I entered LEL knowing that that it would be a challenge due to weather, terrain and distance. It certainly delivered that. The element of jeopardy is what makes it worth doing. Perhaps there's a place for a "mileage challenge" without "scenery", but I don't think  that's what LEL should be. It was pretty clear what LEL would entail for anyone who actually took the time to look at the route, even before the enforced last minute Yad Moss changes.
The obvious way to reduce the DNF rate would be to introduce some form of qualification criteria, a la PBP. I can also see how that would add another administrative headache for the organising team.
Great event, great route, great value and a challenge that was worth my time.

P.S. on the subject of the "look" of the early finishers, I'm pleased to say at least 3 of the sub 100 finishers in the early hours of Wednesday were on proper bikes with mudguards!

[Notfromrugby]

 Somehow it has morphed into a giant sportive with all the ugly issues sportives have.

Sorry, what ugly issues are you talking about?
I've done a fair few sportives... Fred Whitton, Dragon Ride, Etape du Dales, Tour of the Cotswolds, Autumn Epic, Etape Cymru among others in the UK, as well as Ronde VW and Gent-Wevelgem in Belgium and I haven't seen anything ugly

[grams]

That said and, without wanting to disregard the painful choices put upon Danial and, his team (together with the quite obvious weather issue) the event does seem to have moved away from what I first experienced in 2013, both in achievability and, entrants.
 Somehow it has morphed into a giant sportive with all the ugly issues sportives have. It is a great shame, to use Danials words " a minority are destroying something special with their attitude"

It’s worth emphasising that Danial is talking about a tiny number of incidents amongst 1500 riders. Everyone I’ve met has been lovely.

[Mr Larrington]

That said and, without wanting to disregard the painful choices put upon Danial and, his team (together with the quite obvious weather issue) the event does seem to have moved away from what I first experienced in 2013, both in achievability and, entrants.
 Somehow it has morphed into a giant sportive with all the ugly issues sportives have. It is a great shame, to use Danials words " a minority are destroying something special with their attitude"

It’s worth emphasising that Danial is talking about a tiny number of incidents amongst 1500 riders. Everyone I’ve met has been lovely.

This ^^^^

[rogerzilla]

Are people asking for a sponsored goody bag and a free drinks bottle at the finish?   

[L CC]

 Somehow it has morphed into a giant sportive with all the ugly issues sportives have.

Sorry, what ugly issues are you talking about?
I've done a fair few sportives... Fred Whitton, Dragon Ride, Etape du Dales, Tour of the Cotswolds, Autumn Epic, Etape Cymru among others in the UK, as well as Ronde VW and Gent-Wevelgem in Belgium and I haven't seen anything ugly

Clearly didn't look in the mirror, then.

Ugly in the heart.

[Paul H]

Great event, great route, great value and a challenge that was worth my time.

Congrats 

[rogerzilla]

Were the gonzo Italians there this year?  In 2009 they were on their way back down at Alston, just as "the bulge" was coming up.  They were no spring chickens, either, although I think they may have had some backup.

[Notfromrugby]

Were the gonzo Italians there this year?  In 2009 they were on their way back down at Alston, just as "the bulge" was coming up.  They were no spring chickens, either, although I think they may have had some backup.

Probably used to do the Italian long distance audax, which tend to be quite bit hillier than LEL... how much climbing is there in the 1001 miglia?

[Mr Larrington]

Were the gonzo Italians there this year?  In 2009 they were on their way back down at Alston, just as "the bulge" was coming up.  They were no spring chickens, either, although I think they may have had some backup.

I remember hearing of one Italian towing half a pelican's worth of riders on the first leg in 2009.  No, this is my first Audax, but I did ride the Giro earlier this year...