Author Topic: Maths - love or hate?  (Read 7293 times)

Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #25 on: 31 March, 2023, 02:56:59 pm »
Loved it, A at ‘O’ Level, ‘A’ at ‘A’ Level Pure & Mechanics, 1st class honours (BSC) in maths.

I always found it easy, did not have to work at it, to get it.  Always in top 5 in year, during any school assessment, our scores generally in the 95-100% realm. Got 100% in my mock ‘O’ level maths,  finished my ‘A’ level exam after 1.5 hours using log tables (forgot calculator), and left and went home despite having another 1.5 hours to review my workings and answers. Yes, I was that kid. 

There’s plenty I will have forgotten in the almost 40 years since.  But since I have a fairly innate ability and ease with the subject; I don’t find it hard picking up new areas of the subject that I wasn’t taught.

I used to (decades ago) like to tell people I got my maths degree when 20, but that’s only because my birthday is in August. ;D Similarly all ‘O’ levels at 15, all ‘A’ levels at 17 but that’s perfectly normal if born  in  June / July / August. Nowt special. I was no prodigy, and no parental pressure to excel.

Unlike Ian Wright, I was and am crap at football.

Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #26 on: 31 March, 2023, 03:07:23 pm »
But if you practised like Ian Wright would you be competent?

Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #27 on: 31 March, 2023, 03:14:11 pm »
But if you practised like Ian Wright would you be competent?

I think Ian was more than competent. 

I think to go and practice something everyday you’ve got to have a love of it, in some form.  From what I remember at school, it was fine in junior school, but (at secondary school) there were some right vicious (and more physically developed) kids who would always go for your ankles or shoulder charge you off the ball.  It wasn’t much fun as a smaller (I didn’t sprout till 16) and slighter child (I still have the ectomorph build which is good for endurance cycling).

Athletics / running / cross country was more my thing at school , though I wasn’t good at it, never getting below 5 mins a mile, or 13 seconds for the 100m, or 60 seconds for the 400m. I look at the choices kids have nowadays for sports lessons, and can but marvel

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #28 on: 31 March, 2023, 05:41:59 pm »
I don't think it's quite correct that people are happy to be innumerate but ashamed of being illiterate. Not only because, as has been said, anti-intellectualism is a strong trend in all areas, but also because there are different levels of illiteracy. People are happy to say they can't do trigonometry/algebra/calculus – but not to say they can't do basic arithmetic. People are happy to say they haven't read Shakespeare/can't understand an article in the Times/can't write an essay – but not to say they can't read the Sun/can't write a postcard. Matel got flak for producing a Barbie that said "Math is hard" and I'm sure they'd have got the same for making one that said "English is hard".
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #29 on: 31 March, 2023, 07:38:38 pm »
I loved maths up to an easily achieved A grade at O level.  I still enjoy really maths, especially when I can apply it to solve a real life problem but at A level it all went horribly wrong and I ended up scraping an E grade.  Even now, I am pretty convinced that E was made up of a good grade in the applied maths and stats paper and maybe an odd mark or two in the pure maths paper if they marked it leniently. The applied syllabus was taught by an excellent physics teacher who had apparently never taught A level maths before but had an obvious love for the subject and the ability to adapt his teaching if I didn’t get it first time.  His lessons were both informative and enjoyable, a real pleasure.

. The art of the teaching is to be able to work through different methods for both interpreting the question and undertaking the calculation (applying different algorithms)

This! The pure maths bit was taught by a teacher who just had no alternative methods to try if I didn’t follow straight away.  Any lack of understanding was apparently because I was thick and not due to any lack of teaching skills on her part.  She put me off taking maths any further which continues to disappoint me to this day.

ian

Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #30 on: 31 March, 2023, 09:36:02 pm »
Probably no good at it, definitely hated it. I put it down to crappy, uninspired teaching and syllabus. Got an O level grade A though.

Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #31 on: 31 March, 2023, 09:40:00 pm »
I don't think it's quite correct that people are happy to be innumerate

Well look at Boris who doesn’t understand the difference between percentages and probabilities. This, when making key decisions about handling the pandemic.

Conspiracy theories taking root, because they have a poor to non existent grasp of the areas of maths involved in epidemiology.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #32 on: 31 March, 2023, 09:43:01 pm »
That's him all over tho, innit.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #33 on: 31 March, 2023, 09:43:51 pm »
finished my ‘A’ level exam after 1.5 hours using log tables (forgot calculator), and left and went home despite having another 1.5 hours to review my workings and answers. Yes, I was that kid. 
I can beat that.  The last of my finals was Mass Transfer, the hardest discipline in chemical engineering.  3 hour exam, did 1 hour and walked.  71%.  I knew nothing about the subject and still don't, but I got all the past papers and learned, by rote at 5am on the morning of the exam, the four things most likely to come up.  Three were in there.  I didn't even bother doing a fourth question as it was all Greek to me.

I never did it as a career.  I'd probably have destroyed entire cities by now.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #34 on: 31 March, 2023, 09:54:06 pm »
I was OK at maths at school, and went on to do a course on Pure Maths in my final year.
Some philosophical stuff about the basis of numbers. Different types of proof. That kind of thing.
There were only 6 of us in that class, which was taken by a slightly strange and fairly unpopular maths teacher who gloried under the nickname of Borris.

He was actually quite a good teacher, and had a very good grasp of his subject.
He seemed to be somewhat frustrated at having to try to teach simple maths to a bunch of dolts, who he was quite intolerant of.
But when he got going with interesting stuff, he was actually very good and engaging.

After University, I didn't really use any proper maths until the last few years, where I've had to dust off the old maths books.
I'm now working in a software house where we have to build software that solves some fairly hairy equations.
They are never expressed in terms of the thing we need to solve for, and it falls to me to find a method to solve these very non-linear equations in code.
So yes, I'm in amongst Newton-Raphson and other numerical techniques.
Calculating derivative functions and that kind of thing.

Junior the younger is in his final year of Theoretical Physics, and I can't get beyond page 1 of any of his books.
They look like the carvings on the walls of ancient Egyptian temples. Wheatsheaf, wheatsheaf, Eye of Horus...

Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #35 on: 31 March, 2023, 10:09:17 pm »
I was very pleased to hear my eldest Grandson (15yrs, and wants to become a teacher) singing the praises of his maths teacher.

So often the wrong people fall into teaching jobs, from what I gather.

Like a lot of people, I have a mathematical brain. Likewise, a lot of people clearly don't. I love mathematics more than any other language.

"Ott's Law states that the worst weather will coincide with the worst part (for that weather) of any planned ride"

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #36 on: 31 March, 2023, 10:14:11 pm »
I don't think it's quite correct that people are happy to be innumerate

Well look at Boris who doesn’t understand the difference between percentages and probabilities. This, when making key decisions about handling the pandemic.

Conspiracy theories taking root, because they have a poor to non existent grasp of the areas of maths involved in epidemiology.
Even ignoring the Boris Bullshit factor, that's the kind of mid-level ignorance many people are happy to admit to – or proud to claim – in any subject.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

cygnet

  • I'm part of the association
Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #37 on: 31 March, 2023, 10:29:29 pm »
I liked (and was good at) maths until I finished Alevels. Uni required a step change and although I grokked some of it (and along the way acquired a dislike of statisticians) I basically had to learn by rote some of the calculus for fluid dynamics.

Most of my valuable (pays the bills) day-to-day maths usage revolves around geometry with some basic numeracy and algebra. Which I like.

But there are other areas of maths I either don't like or am very out of practice.
I Said, I've Got A Big Stick

rr

Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #38 on: 01 April, 2023, 01:13:06 am »
finished my ‘A’ level exam after 1.5 hours using log tables (forgot calculator), and left and went home despite having another 1.5 hours to review my workings and answers. Yes, I was that kid. 
I can beat that.  The last of my finals was Mass Transfer, the hardest discipline in chemical engineering.  3 hour exam, did 1 hour and walked.  71%.  I knew nothing about the subject and still don't, but I got all the past papers and learned, by rote at 5am on the morning of the exam, the four things most likely to come up.  Three were in there.  I didn't even bother doing a fourth question as it was all Greek to me.

I never did it as a career.  I'd probably have destroyed entire cities by now.
No, fluid mechanics is much harder. At least the vector algebra version I was taught.

Sent from my motorola edge 20 using Tapatalk


Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #39 on: 01 April, 2023, 07:45:46 am »
Cant say i hate maths, but have no love for the subject. In 1977 i achieved CSE grade grade 2 and in 1999 achieved mostly merits in HNC building studies, part of which involved relearning equations.
Im not innumerate, but find maths very difficult. My career as a builder has been successful, and some maths is necessary to calculate areas, volumes, lengths, costs etc. All basic stuff, but i have to be thorough and diligent so as not to make errors which would directly affect my profitability.
I would have liked to be naturally very numerate but ultimately it didnt stop me getting on. Hard work usually overcomes shortcomings i find.

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #40 on: 01 April, 2023, 07:53:13 am »
finished my ‘A’ level exam after 1.5 hours using log tables (forgot calculator), and left and went home despite having another 1.5 hours to review my workings and answers. Yes, I was that kid. 

Whereas I went into in my 3rd year exam at university feeling fine, started sneezing after half an hour and continued thus every three minutes for the rest of the 3 hours.  Miraculously, I passed.  Dunno about the folk round me, though.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #41 on: 01 April, 2023, 08:18:20 am »

No, fluid mechanics is much harder. At least the vector algebra version I was taught.

My cousin has all the pure maths ability in the family.  He has one foot in academia and the other foot in lucrative work modelling fluid flows through human veins and similar complex cases.  I, on the other hand, know that a Reynolds number around 2100 means something or other.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #42 on: 01 April, 2023, 09:03:04 am »
finished my ‘A’ level exam after 1.5 hours using log tables (forgot calculator), and left and went home despite having another 1.5 hours to review my workings and answers. Yes, I was that kid. 
I can beat that.  The last of my finals was Mass Transfer, the hardest discipline in chemical engineering.  3 hour exam, did 1 hour and walked.  71%.  I knew nothing about the subject and still don't, but I got all the past papers and learned, by rote at 5am on the morning of the exam, the four things most likely to come up.  Three were in there.  I didn't even bother doing a fourth question as it was all Greek to me.

I never did it as a career.  I'd probably have destroyed entire cities by now.

That’s where I preferred maths to many other subjects as you had to apply your knowledge in the exams.  You couldn’t just learn by rote and copy / past something from a previous paper.   The other thing about maths was that what you learnt at ‘O’ level was still true at ‘A’ level; where as with Physics and Chemistry it was a case of, well what we taught you wasn’t quite right in an attempt to simplify it for you.

Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #43 on: 01 April, 2023, 09:29:57 am »
I've always had something of a facility for maths. 'A's all through school, degree in physics (about a third of which was described as maths and the other two thirds contained a significant proportion of it), then a career largely in optics, which is a very mathematical branch of physics. And usually ended up doing the most mathematical projects. And those times when I've moved away from optics, the maths has always allowed me to pick up the basics of another field very quickly. I've never really seen maths as an end in itself, but rather as a toolkit for doing other things (I hope I haven't offended too many pure mathematicians!).

What I have sometimes found surprising is I when I've done some fairly routine mathematical analysis and colleagues have been amazed at what I've done. Obviously maths is not the only useful skillset.

But there is always someone better than you. I used to work with Tony Wilson at Oxford, and in a technical meeting with him you would just watch in awe as he produced reams of flawless mathematical analysis (and then spend the next couple of days trying to understand it all). I imagine watching Bach improvise a fugue would be a similar experience.

Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #44 on: 01 April, 2023, 10:40:09 am »
Mostly loved it at school, the teachers were good (I still remember the point at which pi and fractions were introduced in Yr3) and I got good grades at 'O' and 'A' level (Pure & Applied). University was a bit of a shock, it was obvious that the range of topics we had covered at A level was not very broad and I was on the back foot right from the start; not a great help when you are doing Chem. Eng.
I can't remember what I did in infant school (Yr1 &2) that was 'Maths' other than play with coloured wooden rods and scales and jugs graduated in units that would have JRM drooling in ecstasy.
My parents were quite at home with arithmetic and more so were able to help and encourage when I was young; even maternal grandfather chipped in a bit. His favourite teaser for smalls was 'If a brick weighs 5lbs and half a brick, how much does a brick weigh?'.
I wonder how much of people saying, with glee, 'Oh, I'm no good at maths' is to cover up fear?
I remember an occasion when our morris side was holding an event and we needed to estimate how many participants we needed to break even after paying for the hall hire (a fixed cost) and food for each guest (variable) - a trivial equation in one variable. I scribbled it down and solved it but people around almost recoiled in horror.
In more recent years I enjoy popular science and maths books and radio programmes and get the occasional 'lightbulb' moment as something I never understood years ago suddenly becomes obvious.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #45 on: 01 April, 2023, 10:57:42 am »
I was decent at mathematics in school (several certificates of distinction at https://www.amt.edu.au/amc) and did ok during my engineering degree. My skills and understanding has since atrophied from lack of practice but I am confident I could lift my game within a few days if required.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #46 on: 01 April, 2023, 02:27:33 pm »
Okay at maths at school. I did a couple of maths courses as part of doing Open University. I found it relatively easy and was surprised at how much some on the course struggled. I averaged 95% on assignments.

Prefer writing workings down as my ‘butterfly mind’ gets distracted in the middle of thinking.

The logic and definitive right or wrong of answers appeals, and being able to work backwards to check your answer.
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is...

HTFB

  • The Monkey and the Plywood Violin
Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #47 on: 01 April, 2023, 03:07:10 pm »
Junior the younger is in his final year of Theoretical Physics, and I can't get beyond page 1 of any of his books.
They look like the carvings on the walls of ancient Egyptian temples. Wheatsheaf, wheatsheaf, Eye of Horus...
I went to Cambridge one weekend as an undergrad, visiting some friends doing their clinical degrees, bringing my algebra for the week with me.

"I stopped liking maths when it stopped being about numbers," said the future Dr McE, looking over my shoulder at a page of Greek characters and strange brackets.
"That's fine," I say. "Look, here are an n and an m, they are both numbers."
"Those are letters", quoth he, looking harder. "But see, here is a 0 and there is a 1. Those are numbers."
"Those are not numbers", I say.
Not especially helpful or mature

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #48 on: 01 April, 2023, 03:43:44 pm »
I believe I had the potential to be reasonable at maths but was fucked over by several terrible teachers and lack of deaf-aware teaching methods.

Primary school taught us maths well and in a deaf-friendly way. Teacher talking was slow and concise, and backed by blackboard writing. We then did worksheets to consolidate stuff. Maths was done for a short period every day, and we were encouraged to build on progress as well as refresh things. I left primary school a child rated as 'good at maths'. 

I had mostly bad high school maths teachers:
In Year 7 we mostly worked through workbooks, each child doing different ones while the teacher walked round. I found the workbooks moved from intro to "skipping the steps" too quickly which I found confusing. Our good teacher got sick and left, so we had numpty supply teachers or not-maths for months. I finished the algebra books still never fully understanding how to rearrange equations and still don't understand that properly. My primary school grounding meant I scored well on setting tests.

I was put in Set 2 in year 8 and 9 with Mr R who loved maths, whittered endlessly about the subject and lots of off topic stuff. I couldn't process what was maths and what was other. I asked Mr R why maths was useful cos at 13 I didn't see how algebra etc was useful outside a classroom and got a useless answer. So I gave up and mentally switched off. Mr R retired after my year 9 as he'd "lost the plot" (apparently he'd been a great teacher in his heyday). 

For GCSE years we had Mrs T who also loved maths and wanted more women and girls in maths/STEM but seemed to think shaming us for being less good than her or her engineer-daughter was the method. We were an oversized Set 2 and Mrs T wanted us to be Set 1. Mrs T raced through the GCSE syllabus at 200mph, repeating some bits 3x and some only once. When asked to slow down, re-explain or even repeat something, she'd say "Come on Sunshine, don't be Thick!". Mrs T even said this to me as a deaf pupil who had missed several weeks of school. Our set all did horribly in our mock GCSE, I got a U. They had to downgrade us from the top-paper which (rightly) reflected on Mrs T's terrible teaching which Mrs T took out on us.

I scraped a GCSE C, thanks to my amazing GCSE chemistry teacher Mrs P who had taught us exam strategies for staying calm, using logic to work out the answers and if completely stuck, using made-up figures "If we assume X is 6" and still doing the process-steps so we could pick up marks.

At college I did A-levels in chemistry/biology/physics. College did do GCSEs but only the B grade maths paper and I wasn't permitted to resit cos I had passed my GCSE. I would not have survived A-Level maths. I struggled with physics, again I think I was struggling with audio-overload/health and I missed (didn't hear or was never told) the context for the material so I was trying to learn something I didn't understand the purpose of. Chemistry was easier cos our Salters course was actually applied-chemistry so everything was introduced with 'why it is useful' which was great for learning, and as a grounding for every chemistry-useful degree except actual chemistry!

I started a degree in chemistry, got an unconditional offer for arguing with the admissions tutor about whether my hand impairments would stop me working in the lab (I was furious cos he was SO disablist). We actually had a good first term tutor Dr S for "maths for people without the A-level" class, who explained everything carefully, wrote it down and explained the shortcuts visually so we understood. We started to gain confidence and skill. I think we all passed Dr S's exam. Unfortunately in Term 2, Dr S was replaced by a computational chemist Dr G who tried to cram 4 major topics into one class and babbled at 200mph. I took my hearing aid out in class after 15 mins for the first time in my life cos Dr G might as well have been speaking Greek for all I could understand him. I didn't bother attending more maths classes, it was pointless. I was already realising I'd got 2:1s for everything except chemistry, I realised it wasn't the right degree or right academic department for me.

Maths was one of the 4 main reasons I ran away from the chemistry degree.

In adulthood I have realised through learning British Sign Language (BSL), meeting many other deaf people (signers and nonsigners) and supporting my mum through her Teacher of the Deaf training that deaf people like myself have poor auditory working memory. Deaf children in properly taught classes are taught slowly and clearly in speech/SL + given key info in writing and things are explained properly rather than just assumed.

It is now commonly understood that deaf people easily auditory-overload in education and some of us get very confused and or become ill as a result (massive rates of chronic fatigue, poor mental health and similar conditions in deaf communities). Sadly deaf children are still not taught in small classes with fluent BSL access as well and there remains a widening deaf-hearing attainment gap.

I haven't used significant maths except arithmetic and spreadsheets since university. I have to look stuff up like calculating percentages cos I never did understand it and can't seem to get it to stick in my brain now (I blame bad memories). I have to triple check even if I've looked stuff up cos I don't really understand why or how even simple stuff works and I know it's easy to plug numbers into the wrong place. I am sad and angry that my maths teaching was largely poor and that deaf people like myself are not taught in BSL and in deaf-focused environments - mainstream and speech/English only is a disaster for us.   

Re: Maths - love or hate?
« Reply #49 on: 01 April, 2023, 05:07:05 pm »
I got a computer science degree but could not pass my maths O level.  I learned to read at home and taught myself the alphabet in about three minutes aged 9 or maybe 10.  I hadn't been aware I needed to know it.  I have always had a problem with hearing speech without actually being deaf.   


Sheldon Brown never said leave it to the professionals.