Rugby World Cup 2023 in France

[ElyDave]

Giving away an extra 10 yards in a WC QF - Borthwick should pull him now, he's a fucking liability

I've advanced penalties like that as a ref and you need players to understand the required discipline, at this level that should not be in question.

Joe Marler by contrast- asking the Q, "OK, next time" - smile from ref.  It's all about the engagement, and OF doesn't have it

[Peter]

Even worse in a SF!  But you were accidentally right - he did it in the QF, too.  And I think your conclusion is probably correct, too.  It's not as if England are ahead and clear.

[ElyDave]

Even worse in a SF!  But you were accidentally right - he did it in the QF, too.  And I think your conclusion is probably correct, too.  It's not as if England are ahead and clear.

Yes, that was a key point in a pre-game briefing - I'll tell you why I've made a decision, that doens't make it a debate.

And yes, SF, not QF

[andyoxon]

Well I wasn't expecting that score line at 1/2 time.

[Peter]

Even worse in a SF!  But you were accidentally right - he did it in the QF, too.  And I think your conclusion is probably correct, too.  It's not as if England are ahead and clear.

Yes, that was a key point in a pre-game briefing - I'll tell you why I've made a decision, that doens't make it a debate.

And yes, SF, not QF

I like that - I'm hearing it with a Welsh accent, Nigel Owens-style!

[ElyDave]

I had one captain visibly roll his eyes at that, alongside my demand for clear ball on the floor

Let's just say 50/50 decisions became 60/40 

[Peter]

Ha!

It has to be said that Owen Farrell is pretty much unflappable (although we worry that that can be the problem!).

[ElyDave]

That said, we seem to be coing to them, what they did to us in Japan, in terms of simply disrupting their game enough.

Can we bring another level to NZ if needed?

[Jaded]

Pah!

[toontra]

Pretty rubbish from both teams, probably at least partly due to the conditions.  I wouldn't have seemed right for a team to have got to the final without scoring a try in the semi, so probably the right result.

[ElyDave]

Agreed, can't argue with the outcome. A last minute drop would have been a fairytale, but a fair result overall.

I'd have to wonder how many times we've had two from the same pool meet in the last 4?

[Wowbagger]

Agreed, can't argue with the outcome. A last minute drop would have been a fairytale, but a fair result overall.

I'd have to wonder how many times we've had two from the same pool meet in the last 4?

Can they do that? I thought the pools and knockout stages were always organised that two from the same pool can't meet again until the final/3rd place play off (I don't even know that there is a 3rd place play off).

[ElyDave]

Last 4 = Final and 3rd playoff?

England v Argentina, again - exacty where we began this

[Wowbagger]

Last 4 = Final and 3rd playoff?

England v Argentina, again - exacty where we began this

Ah, I misunderstood. I think of the last 4 as teams still in with a chance of the cup. Teams from the same pool can't meet in the semi.

[ElyDave]

Last 4 = Final and 3rd playoff?

England v Argentina, again - exacty where we began this

Ah, I misunderstood. I think of the last 4 as teams still in with a chance of the cup. Teams from the same pool can't meet in the semi.

Could have been more specific, still, can you think when it last happened?

[Nuncio]

(From Wiki, not memory)

In 2007 England and SA played in the same pool and in the final; and France and Argentina played in the same pool and in the 3rd place game.

eta: France/New Zealand 2011, pool and final.

[Mr Larrington]

If the Saffers play the first 60’ of the final the way they played yesterday it won’t matter what they do in the last 20, because New Toyland will already be about forty points ahead.

[Wowbagger]

Indeed. It's looking increasingly like a NZ win - but then most of us didn't give England much hope of keeping SA in check for such a long time.

[drgannet]

I was impressed with the SA substitutions yesterday. It wasn't working so replace as many of the pack and players making errors ASAP. England's prop subs, on the other hand, did not go so well.

[Peter]

Well, they may struggle for a hooker:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67185493

but it's good to see equal opportunities in the racism field!

[Wowbagger]

It seemed that when the final whistle went, there was a bit of argie-bargie* between the two sides. I wasn't paying sufficient attention to notice whether there were handshakes or not.

I was quite surprised, as the match went on, how much I wanted England to win. I'm sure I'll get over it, and will do my best not to repeat the mistake...

*this is not a reference to navigators on the river Plate...

[John Stonebridge]

I didn't give England an earthly last night but they went mighty close.  Their plan to try and beat a team that should have won hands down was almost as admirable as NZ out thinking Ireland. 

I wasn't a fan of England's wind up antics - and more importantly neither was the ref who rightly clamped down and it all seemed to stop in the second half coinciding with the momentum swing towards the boks.  Who knows what might have happened had that penalty not been marched forward? 

I have found the French crowds habit of singing their national anthem during games that feature two other countries a tad irksome.  I could just about understand it last night it if France had reached the final and they were using it as something of a "we're waiting in the final" message to both teams but they were already OOT so its just a very strange thing to do imho.   

NZ son in law messaged at FT to say he'd been wanting England to win "as the weaker team".  Cant see SA being that bad again and I suspect that NZ have already played their best game in the quarters - my prediction is for a dull arm wrestle win for SA in the final. 
 

[Von Broad]

Considering I played a lot of Rugby at school [quite a bit of Rugby around in Northamptonshire in the 1970s] I should understand what I was watching last night, but being primarily a football man, I've never really kept a brace with subtle rule modifications over the years, and quite a lot of the penalty decisions left me a bit bemused. I watched the game alone, and would liked to have watched it with somebody else who understood the nuances of the game so I could turn round every so often and ask, 'what's that for'? lol But that didn't affect my enjoyment of the game, although as has been mentioned above, probably not the best game of Rugby you're going to watch, but pretty tense nonetheless. And full credit to England for giving all they had to give. That elusive try always seemed to be so elusive.

[Steph]

I watched one moment in the game where SA had a penalty. It may have been the one that won the game for ZA. In it, England were peeped for lifting out in the front row. When you see it from the 'spider cam', it is the SA tighthead who is at such an angle he was absolutely illegal, and him who should have been penalised.

I speak as a former prop.

[ElyDave]

I watched one moment in the game where SA had a penalty. It may have been the one that won the game for ZA. In it, England were peeped for lifting out in the front row. When you see it from the 'spider cam', it is the SA tighthead who is at such an angle he was absolutely illegal, and him who should have been penalised.

I speak as a former prop.

If you look at the current crop of referees at that level, not many have played in the front row. Nick Berry's not bad around the scrum - ex scrum-half