Author Topic: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?  (Read 1076 times)

Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« on: 26 May, 2024, 01:21:26 pm »
Sitting in Abington Park, Northampton supping a coffee a crow came to the table next to us and helped itself to the remains of a tray of chips.  It then hopped to the next table and hoovered up crumbs before going to a third table and doing the same again.

And then it flew away.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #1 on: 26 May, 2024, 02:11:07 pm »
Not really, crows have a degree of intelligence, vs seagull cunning and pigeon sheer fuckwittery. A flock of about 15 yesterday were too stupid to get out of the way of a big red moving object that was quite a bit heavier than them.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #2 on: 26 May, 2024, 07:28:30 pm »
Some pigeons are not the same as other pigeons. Nor are seagulls. Some crows may be rooks.
Sheldon Brown never said leave it to the professionals.

Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #3 on: 26 May, 2024, 08:57:14 pm »
If tha sees crows, them's rooks. If tha sees a rook, it's a crow.
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #4 on: 26 May, 2024, 10:04:40 pm »
Most covids are opportunistic feeders, clever enough to take advantage of situations.  Clever enough to recognise individual humans as well, so best not to offend them unnecessarily.

chopstick

  • aka "freiston" in other places
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #5 on: 26 May, 2024, 11:11:27 pm »
We put out a lot of food* for the birds, of varying types, in varying feeders, in a couple of locations.  I have to put a disclaimer in that it's my partner that buys the food and insists on it being dished out.  Due to her lack of mobility, it's usually me that does all the "admin".

In the back garden, we have a peanut squirrel feeder on the ground, a post with two feeders hanging off it - a peanut feeder and a fatball feeder.  Squirrels can get to the feeders on the post but don't go for the fatball feeder.  We have two bird tables: a small one suspended from a tree and a large one firmly on a post - the squirrels can get to both of these.  As well as that, we have, hanging from a tree, a sunflower seed feeder that, as yet, only the passerines can get to and feed from.  We also have, hanging from a tree, a suet block feeder that all birds bar the pigeons can get to.  We don't get seagulls feeding in the back garden but we do get, as well as the little birds, jackdaws and wood pigeons.

At the front of the house, there's a large rectangle of grass in a no-road traffic-free cul-de-sac with a pavement around and privet hedges.  here, I put down, on the large rectangle of grass and under the hedge, seed and seeded bread pieces.

At the front of the house, it is mainly feral pigeons and jackdaws that feed; under hedge it is house sparrows.  In the winter we occasionally get gulls but mostly they don't bother - they're much more interested in food from schoolkids and motorists (as far as I can tell).

In the back garden, the jackdaws will empty the fat feeders quickly - they can empty both the ball feeder and the block feeder in less than a day.  They struggle on the small hanging table but still go for it - but not as successfully as the squirrels (they will also knock all the seed off the hanging table when they leave it in a hurry).  The jackdaws also go for the large table and any ground food - as do the wood pigeons.  They seem to tolerate each other but when push comes to shove, either on the table or on the ground, it's a coin-toss as to whether the woodies or the jackdaws will be triumphant.  The woodies cannot manage any of the hanging feeders or the hanging table.

A few years ago, we seldom had jackdaws in the garden.  We did get (and still do get) magpies in the garden but no other corvids except for the rare jay.  Nowadays, we get about as many jackdaws as woodies - but the jackdaws come and go whereas the woodies just seem to hang around and roost permanently in the vicinity (we often have double figures on our little lawn).  The jackdaws are more adept at getting the fat/suet from the feeders but the woodies, as ever, can really get through the food on the ground.

We live on the edge of town - it's more rural than urban.  I work in the centre of Birmingham where we have problems with both gulls and feral pigeons - they nest on our roof/in cavities accessed from the roof, and they get stuck in our courtyard (it's too small and the walls are too high for them to fly out of - the older gulls have learnt to go from window ledge to window ledge to get out but the young ones just get trapped there until we can get them out or fate deals them a fatal blow).

In the city centre, it's definitely the gulls that are dominant in numbers and in other ways.  I don't recall seeing corvids in the city centre - that might be due to lack of attention but certainly they are too few for me to notice.

So in summary in my experience: in my semi-rural suburban habitat, of all the corvids, jackdaws hardly figured a few years ago but now are up there with wood pigeons and are better all-round food grabbers than the woodies.  In the city centre, it's the gulls at the top of the pecking order and corvids hardly make an appearance.

*at least 6kg a week of mixed seed/suet pellets as well as a loaf of seeded bread and varying amounts of sunflower seeds, peanuts, fatballs and suet blocks.

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #6 on: 26 May, 2024, 11:26:06 pm »
If tha sees crows, them's rooks. If tha sees a rook, it's a crow.

This "old saw" has lost any truth it may have had.

We see crows in groups quite regularly, some of those groups quite large. The visible difference between a crow and an adult rook is the base of the beak: with a crow, the bill is black and surrounded by black feathers. In an adult rook, they lose those feathers and have greyish-white skin surrounding the beak. Here in Southend, there are hardly any rooks. I haven't seen one for a long time, but there are plenty of crows, and they are sociable. I saw a rook a couple of days ago whilst we were having a break at Peterborough services and the difference is very striking.



They are all crows. There were about another dozen not far away when I took that photo.

Rooks nest sociably. A rookery is a sight to behold. But I know of only one within 10 miles of Southend. Most of the rookeries I knew of as a child disappeared when Dutch elm disease took away their favoured nesting tree.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #7 on: 27 May, 2024, 09:24:31 am »
I'd put seagulls and foxes equal second in ranking of urban litter distributors. Pigeons will take what they find, as will crows, but they don't spread it around much. Top place, obviously, goes to humans.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #8 on: 27 May, 2024, 01:21:22 pm »
If tha sees crows, them's rooks. If tha sees a rook, it's a crow.

This "old saw" has lost any truth it may have had.

We see crows in groups quite regularly, some of those groups quite large. The visible difference between a crow and an adult rook is the base of the beak: with a crow, the bill is black and surrounded by black feathers. In an adult rook, they lose those feathers and have greyish-white skin surrounding the beak. Here in Southend, there are hardly any rooks. I haven't seen one for a long time, but there are plenty of crows, and they are sociable. I saw a rook a couple of days ago whilst we were having a break at Peterborough services and the difference is very striking.



They are all crows. There were about another dozen not far away when I took that photo.

Rooks nest sociably. A rookery is a sight to behold. But I know of only one within 10 miles of Southend. Most of the rookeries I knew of as a child disappeared when Dutch elm disease took away their favoured nesting tree.

Note the careful social distancing.
Sheldon Brown never said leave it to the professionals.

Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #9 on: 27 May, 2024, 01:33:36 pm »
If tha sees crows, them's rooks. If tha sees a rook, it's a crow.

Rooks are part of the crow family.  This one was jet black from tail feathers to beak and a rose it's entire wingspan.

Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #10 on: 27 May, 2024, 03:18:25 pm »
If tha sees crows, them's rooks. If tha sees a rook, it's a crow.

Rooks are part of the crow family.  This one was jet black from tail feathers to beak and a rose it's entire wingspan.

Yorkshire or Lancastrian?
Sheldon Brown never said leave it to the professionals.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #11 on: 27 May, 2024, 06:27:02 pm »
Another entry in the "pigeons are stupid" notebook.  Pigeon decided to take off from the left hand verge to my right, just avoiding being clipped by a 35km/h combination of me and Faran 2.5.

If it had taken off to my left that would have been upwind.  I may not be the most advanced pilot, but I know you always take off upwind!
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #12 on: 27 May, 2024, 10:43:27 pm »
...

Note the careful social distancing.

The last thing you want is a covid corvid.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #13 on: 28 May, 2024, 10:36:50 am »
Red kites, "shitehawks" in Victorian times, are the new seagulls in some parts.  They look noble and magnificent but they are basically carrion birds and scavengers.  Apparently they like the tip near Didcot.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #14 on: 28 May, 2024, 11:26:43 am »
Red kites, "shitehawks" in Victorian times, are the new seagulls in some parts.  They look noble and magnificent but they are basically carrion birds and scavengers.  Apparently they like the tip near Didcot.

as are buzzards, but they still serve a purpose of dealing with roadkill
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Wombat

  • Is it supposed to hurt this much?
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #15 on: 31 May, 2024, 07:28:21 pm »
Another entry in the "pigeons are stupid" notebook.  Pigeon decided to take off from the left hand verge to my right, just avoiding being clipped by a 35km/h combination of me and Faran 2.5.

If it had taken off to my left that would have been upwind.  I may not be the most advanced pilot, but I know you always take off upwind!

My only experience of pigeons being notably stupid (we don't get many round here, as I suspect they're frightened of all the buzzards and occasional red kite) was a several years ago on the M27.  Ickle bright red Skoda with me in it, doing 60+ mph in the nearside lane travelling East, and "pidgy no brains", standing on the hard shoulder decides a West South Westerly direction is the one to go for.  Pidgies can accelerate quite nicely, and fly fast, so I dread to thing what the impact speed was, as he hit my windscreen with an almighty thump. I assumed he'd broken it, but no, it survived, which is more than the feathered rats neck managed.  Sadly the M27 and windscreen impacts is a bit of a frightener for me, having once been on the receiving end of half a concrete block, dropped from a footbridge whilst I was exceeding the speed limit in my then new FIAT Uno.  Good I wore glasses, or I'd be blind now.  The entire inside of the car was covered in fine glass particles and the laminated screen had a big dent in the middle, and a very small hole.  The most upsetting bit about it was the police's casual attitude over it, totally unconcerned, despite the headline of the local paper resting on their reception counter being words to the effect of "motorway bridge terror as vandals target cars".   Its attempted murder, you useless muppets!  Hence whenever I go under a footbridge with people visible on it, I change lane to avoid going under them.
Wombat

cygnet

  • I'm part of the association
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #16 on: 31 May, 2024, 09:30:45 pm »
It's also nesting/youngling season, and I've been warned about crows dive-bombing people in an manner more known to me as the australian magpie. Bleedin' corvids.
I Said, I've Got A Big Stick

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #17 on: 31 May, 2024, 09:34:15 pm »
We have a lot of crows nesting the others idea of our road, but I have never experienced that behaviour
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #18 on: 31 May, 2024, 10:03:11 pm »
I've only encountered that behaviour once, from a buzzard. It's bloody scary!

chopstick

  • aka "freiston" in other places
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #19 on: 01 June, 2024, 12:09:03 pm »
I've only been dive-bombed once but it was by a seagull in Cornwall.  I didn't see it coming and thought that someone had took a punch at me from behind.  Apparently, in that neck of the woods, they do it in pairs to people eating food (I was eating a pasty) - one attacks from behind, which often causes the victim to drop their food and turn to face their assailant, and the other grabs the dropped food.  I did drop the pasty but it was still in the paper bag.  I can't remember if I took a kick at the gull attempting to nab it or if my good lady shook her walking stick at it, but I retained my pasty - which was nice  ;D.

Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #20 on: 01 June, 2024, 12:32:49 pm »
I have been dive bombed by bonksies three times.  Once on Papa Westray, once on Shetland mainland and once on Unst.  They are truly scary.

Never by crows, pigeons or any other bird but I have had a seagull try to nick my battered sausage in Mevagissey.

Giraffe

  • I brake for Giraffes
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #21 on: 01 June, 2024, 05:40:27 pm »
A pigeon tried to land on my front wheel - at about 15 mph. Took quite a bit of waving and shouting to warn it off.
Magpies, at least in rural areas, tend to be wary, so one coming in to land directly in front of me was unexpected - I couldn't have stopped. Again, took a lot to get rid of it.
2x4: thick plank; 4x4: 2 of 'em.

chopstick

  • aka "freiston" in other places
Re: Are crows the new pigeons or even seagulls?
« Reply #22 on: 02 June, 2024, 11:47:13 am »
I have been dive bombed by bonksies three times.  Once on Papa Westray, once on Shetland mainland and once on Unst.  They are truly scary.

Never by crows, pigeons or any other bird but I have had a seagull try to nick my battered sausage in Mevagissey.
My attack by seagull was in Mevagissey too!