Author Topic: LEL borked my knee!  (Read 6057 times)

scottlington

  • It's short for, erm....Bob!
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2009, 12:29:56 pm »
Spoilsports. Both of you.  ;D

Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2009, 04:26:02 pm »
Glad to hear you're seeing a physio, Scott. 

I had patella tracking problems which led to being barely able to walk for a week or so, and having frequent knee pain thereafter.  After extensive visiting of specialists they concluded "nothing we can do" & referred me to physio (twice a week for 2 hrs - there's a special clinic at St Thomas').  I got v v annoyed at the physio as it really didn't feel like it was doing much, but after I'd finished it, I kept riding the bike & things did gradually continue to improve.

The suggestion for my problem (which felt a lot like yours - front of kneecap pain, on the inside) was that once you've started rebalancing the muscles above the kneecap, cycling will use both of them, so it'll strengthen things in a Good Way.  Whereas without that prior rebalancing work, cycling will tend to use one muscle only (the big one) and pull the kneecap out of position. 

(Er, I think that's roughly what was said, anyway - I am not a doctor nor a physio!)

I too found that spinning rather than pushing big gears helped a lot.  I was back on the bike almost immediately for 12 miles/day (because standing up was more painful than cycling, and catching the tube to work = standing up), but going very very slowly and using tiny gears, especially when looking at anything approximating an incline.  By 'very very slowly' I mean <12mph on the flat, and no racing away from lights.  Incredibly frustrating (though at the time I was strictly a commute cyclist only, no long distance - it would be even worse now!) but better than wrecking things again. 

These days things are *mostly* OK - I get some knee pain sometimes on long rides, but nothing too dramatic.  Knees are a little complainy atm after 6 weeks on ships getting no exercise - I assume all the muscles have gone splat again :(  Kneewarmers make a huge difference on cold/wet rides (I think that wet + cycling speed = cold knees).

scottlington

  • It's short for, erm....Bob!
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2009, 11:05:48 am »
Saw the physio for an initial assessment yesterday. She had a variety of observations, the main ones being one leg 1cm shorter than the other and a very tight left hip / thigh area. Amongst other was a lack of muscle strength on the inside of my left thigh, just above the knee,  leading to a slight displacement of the knee cap as the ITB is not balanced.

I have a number of strength exercises to do but the main thing is to get the stiffness / tightness out of my hip first . It's been like this for as long as I can remember.

Anyway, I've been banned from cycling / running / cross training (stairs too if I can help it) for 4-6 weeks. Bummer.... :(

scottlington

  • It's short for, erm....Bob!
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2009, 04:40:51 pm »
Physio has let me start back on the bike as of this morning. Slowly, slowly was her advice.... I did sneakily enjoy 50 mins on the spin bike at the gym yesterday as I was uber-frustrated at getting fat and unfit  :-[.  However, I managed it with no discomfort so will be spending the next month or so gently spinning back in and trying out some shorter rides on the bike. The discomfort that came with a heavy bend of the knee seems to have gone and I was boyed by being able to cycle at a good pace for just under an hour - let's see what the remainder of this week brings.

I have the middle two weekends of October free and was hoping to maybe head over somehere flat (Norfolk, Suffolk etc) for a 100k spin. Would anyone a) like to join me or b) recommend a suitable route?

If all goes well during October I am targeting the Upper Thames as the next level with the Sth Bucks WW as backup if I'm not ready. I'd really like to get a 200 in before Christmas, so would consider a DIY / Perm if I had company?  :)

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2009, 06:59:06 pm »
Marvellous.

 :thumbsup:

My knee seems to have had a setback.  ???

scottlington

  • It's short for, erm....Bob!
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2009, 09:21:00 pm »
Marvellous.

 :thumbsup:

My knee seems to have had a setback.  ???


What happened?

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2009, 09:41:48 pm »
Marvellous.

 :thumbsup:

My knee seems to have had a setback.  ???


What happened?

Standing around all day at the Hauxton Village Hall was painful and then tonight it felt like there was something loose behind the kneecap.  Now it's fine.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2009, 09:53:48 am »
I did sneakily enjoy 50 mins on the spin bike at the gym yesterday ...  I managed it with no discomfort so will be spending the next month or so gently spinning back in and trying out some shorter rides on the bike.

Hurrah! You are on the mend.  Good work.

Prepare for more frustration as you think "hmm it's only 100 miles of hills" and then realise that you can't quite do that yet. 

The other problem is when you get a slight twinge in your knee and are filled with dread that the pain and nuisance is about to come back.

It's better to have a slow comeback than risk a recurrence.  Devise some plan that lets you increase mileage by 10% a week.  Use the spinny gears.  Don't use the big ring at all.

At least you don't live in Devon.  I quickly got bored of the few easy flatter routes during the recovery phase.
Audaxing Blog follow @vorsprungbike on

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2009, 10:09:51 am »
I have the middle two weekends of October free and was hoping to maybe head over somehere flat (Norfolk, Suffolk etc) for a 100k spin. Would anyone a) like to join me or b) recommend a suitable route?

October WARTY 24th?

I could very easily be persuaded around Newmarket- Stowmarket on Saturday 17th, on a hill avoidance route.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2009, 10:13:01 am »
I have the middle two weekends of October free and was hoping to maybe head over somehere flat (Norfolk, Suffolk etc) for a 100k spin. Would anyone a) like to join me or b) recommend a suitable route?

I could very easily be persuaded around Newmarket- Stowmarket on Saturday 17th, on a hill avoidance route.


+1
I've got a lovely 100k-ish loop out from near audley end station across to near stowmarket and back.  17th or 18th should be clear too.


Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2009, 10:15:14 am »
I have the middle two weekends of October free and was hoping to maybe head over somehere flat (Norfolk, Suffolk etc) for a 100k spin. Would anyone a) like to join me or b) recommend a suitable route?

I could very easily be persuaded around Newmarket- Stowmarket on Saturday 17th, on a hill avoidance route.


+1
I've got a lovely 100k-ish loop out from near audley end station across to near stowmarket and back.  17th or 18th should be clear too.



Anything starting at Audley End and heading for Stowmarket won't be flat ;).

Unless expressed on the Volio Scale.

Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2009, 10:26:29 am »

Anything starting at Audley End and heading for Stowmarket won't be flat ;).

Unless expressed on the Volio Scale.

northern softie.

something like this: bikehike.co.uk - Course Creator

so flat-ish, with a fantastic bacon roll stop at about 30 miles.

scottlington

  • It's short for, erm....Bob!
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2009, 10:49:41 am »
Thanks chaps for the offers of company and route advice. Enlighten me - what does WARTY stand for?  :-\

Anyways - am looking for a real hill avoidance route to be honest (also hoping for no wind) so maybe the WARTY route is not ideal.

I won't make any firm decision until this weekend after seeing how the knee reacts to a week in the gym and a possible (easy) spin class on Saturday morning.

scottlington

  • It's short for, erm....Bob!
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2009, 05:28:45 pm »
Good news is the knee stood up to a full spin class on Saturday morning (with nothing more than a slight ache afterwards, gone now). So, I will probably pop somewhere flat next weekend with Mrs Scottlington and then head out for a more 'organised' 100k ride the following weekend (17th / 18th).

I'm hoping ChrisS will join me (and, a little cheekily on my part, suggest a good route!  ;)) - others are more than welcome.  :thumbsup:

Depending on how all that goes, I'll 'post' an entry for the Upper Thames.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2009, 12:16:37 pm »
Glad to hear of your recovery Scott.

I was going to post of how much luckier I've been. Managed 2x200k without the problem recurring this weekend. (This after a very frustrating period of gently increasing mileage, no pain but slight imflammation ... various other phases ... ad tedium ... )
But 350k into the weekend the OTHER knee joined the fun. Bastard! Only a dull pain, so nothing like the LEL experience.

I think I know why this happened, so I'm not panicing. But I WILL reduce the mileage again in a big way for at least 2 months, and not let my muscles reach serious fatigue. Just before this ride my chiro/physio mentioned that after tendonitis cleared up, you are at risk for about another year. So I have to learn this lesson. No more silly risks until at least PBP 2011 :P

[it is still VERY annoying to miss out on all this autumn good weather, just when I had such good fitness. ]


So ...  if I see you 3/4 round the UT200, complaining of "slight soreness", don't be surprised if I order a taxi and take your brevet card away!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

scottlington

  • It's short for, erm....Bob!
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2009, 08:03:49 am »
So ...  if I see you 3/4 round the UT200, complaining of "slight soreness", don't be surprised if I order a taxi and take your brevet card away!

 ;D ;D

scottlington

  • It's short for, erm....Bob!
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #66 on: October 12, 2009, 08:52:45 am »
Cycled into work this morning. That is literally the first time I have sat on my bike since finishing LEL. Doing a 100k ride with ChrisS this weekend (Saturday 17th). Fingers crossed all goes well and then I can enter the UT200 in November. Not sure of the exact route Chris has in mind, but will be starting from Necton I guess, so if anyone fancies an easy, and probably slow, 100k feel free to join.

Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2009, 08:57:30 am »
Cycled into work this morning. That is literally the first time I have sat on my bike since finishing LEL. Doing a 100k ride with ChrisS this weekend (Saturday 17th). Fingers crossed all goes well and then I can enter the UT200 in November. Not sure of the exact route Chris has in mind, but will be starting from Necton I guess, so if anyone fancies an easy, and probably slow, 100k feel free to join.

Yes indeedy - anyone fancying a slowish pootle around some Norfolk lanes - let me know. It'll probably be a slow loop of the Stanta Battle Area - the forest is looking lovely at the moment. Perhaps a cafe stop at High Lodge.

scottlington

  • It's short for, erm....Bob!
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #68 on: October 18, 2009, 03:02:23 pm »
Ok, well that went alright. A tad shy of 107km and a very pleasant day's cycling.

I had a little whinge from the knee around 75km - nothing I'm overly concerned about. The most noticeable thing was how much stamina I have lost in the last 3 months. Suffered quite a big drop off at about 85km and had to stop for something to eat and was then just grinding towards the end trying to keep ChrisS in sight. Hey ho, that will come back - just proves how much the UT200 is going to hurt!  :sick:

We met up with fboab at around 30k and rode up to High Lodge for a break. Luckily for me, High Lodge has a bike shop onsite as (in what is turning out to be a regular occurence for me) I had a rear spoke break about 40km in. So, that wheel, brand new just before LEL had 3 spokes go on that ride, got fixed by Pearsons after LEL and now has had another go the first time I have ridden it since..... absolute RUBBISH. I would very much welcome suggestions for a good and reputable wheel builder in Surrey (not Pearsons).

Anyway, apart form that, had a good day out and pleased with how it went. Many thanks to ChrisS (and family) for the excellent hospitality and company.

See some of you on the Upper Thames.  :thumbsup:

GraemeMcC

  • CaptainContours
    • Contour's eVents Calendar
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2009, 05:10:00 pm »
A bit late perhaps, but just found your thread...

I've had patellar tendonitis since Feb. Have been seeing a chiropractor (for back problem) who advised either of 2 options:
1) for non-athletes, total rest, perhaps 10 - 12 weeks, to allow affected area to recover,
or
2) for must-do athletes, keep going with low-strain effort   i.e. no high gears, no out-of-the-saddle climbing, no sprinting efforts, etc.

(1) would lose all fitness in the legs, not just the knees, so was not an option pre LEL. I chose method (2).

Did 1.75x SRs pre LEL on wet and hilly events (in hindsight, the best training in the raining ever, for LEL'09). Knee pain persisted in fluctuations, but not in LEL itself. 10 months on from 1st diagnosis, tendonitis is now easing. (Completed RRTY despite knee problem.)

The chiropractor also highly recommended icing after all significant exercise. This eases swelling. Also told to avoid ibugel, etc, as these only mask the symptons. They don't repair the problem.

In my case, my dodgy R knee joint was"slacker" than L knee - worn out/age. Stretching the over-tight ITB has helped. But the real healer is time, reduced intensity and ice-bags.

Spin those twiddly gears...
PBP 2011: 1234 km by Nr. 5678 in < 90 hrs. Most auspicious...

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2009, 09:08:25 pm »
Yes!  Ice!  Ice!  Ice!

Generally I try to ice after every long bike ride these days, plus things like football, gym sessions etc.


mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2009, 08:56:53 am »
The chiropractor also highly recommended icing after all significant exercise. This eases swelling. Also told to avoid ibugel, etc, as these only mask the symptons. They don't repair the problem.
Warning, pedantry:

I believe using anti-inflammatory drugs (e.g. ibugel) is fine AFTER exercise, as they reduce swelling, just like the icing.

But if you meant DURING exercise, then I would agree. (although it seems to be more subtle than that: Inflammation - not all bad? )

p.s. I'm really impressed you got through all that riding with your problem. I seriously considered DNFing on LEL with my patellar tendonitis (mainly to avoid doing myself long-term damage), and it was only an issue for the 2nd half.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: LEL borked my knee!
« Reply #72 on: November 12, 2009, 10:06:00 am »
Quote
The New York Times' often revelatory Well column offers an interesting report on research conducted on athletes who took ibuprofen before and during the Western States Endurance Run, an absurdly challenging 100-mile contest in California's Sierra Nevada mountains. Researchers from the Human Performance Laboratory at the North Carolina Research Campus found that runners who’d popped ibuprofen before and during the race displayed significantly more inflammation and other markers of high immune system response afterward than the runners who hadn’t taken anti-inflammatories. The ibuprofen users also showed signs of mild kidney impairment and, both before and after the race, of low-level endotoxemia, a condition in which bacteria leak from the colon into the bloodstream. Wait, there's more: The Times reports that other researchers have found in laboratory experiments on animal tissues that non steroidal anti inflammatory13_ibuprofen-pill drugs (NSAIDs) such as ibuprofen actually slowed the healing of injured muscles, tendons,ligament, and bones. That, says one researcher, is because NSAIDs work by inhibiting the production of prostaglandins, substances that are involved in pain and also in the creation of collagen, Warden says. So fewer prostaglandins mean less collagen, “which inhibits the healing of tissue and bone injuries.”