PBP 2011 qualification & entry

[Martin]

I'd recommend anyone who wants to not just ensure entry to PBP but also enjoy it to go for a full BRM SR the year before.

I was just wondering if the French have eyes on the double SR series as standard qualification in the future.

I don't think that's practical; not least because the Americans and Japanese don't have enough holiday to manage it (many were using their entire leave for the year to fly to Paris do PBP then fly back having done the basic SR) but I think eventually we'll see the SR the year before required (which the 400 looks like being a pilot of)  which I believe RUSA tried voluntarily a few years back to try to improve their country's success rate.

[Von Broad]

I'd recommend anyone who wants to not just ensure entry to PBP but also enjoy it to go for a full BRM SR the year before.

I was just wondering if the French have eyes on the double SR series as standard qualification in the future.

I don't think that's practical; not least because the Americans and Japanese don't have enough holiday to manage it (many were using their entire leave for the year to fly to Paris do PBP then fly back having done the basic SR) but I think eventually we'll see the SR the year before which I believe RUSA tried voluntarily a few years back to try to improve their country's success rate.

Sorry Martin, I meant a second SR the year before PBP, not a double SR in the same year as PBP.

[Martin]

Sorry Martin, I meant a second SR the year before PBP, not a double SR in the same year as PBP.

or even a first? 

looking at the OP it looks like you can register without having even ridden a 400 / 600 in the qualifying year (although I assume you will of course have to do them before your entry is confirmed) maybe it's just a way of spreading out their admin? Remember also that many of us went and did the BCM in the knowledge that we'd be the first UK qualifiers although in the end all the entries went in together.

FF; this BRM400 will create a possible maximum of £5000 extra for ACP; doesn't seem that sinister.

[Von Broad]

Sorry Martin, I meant a second SR the year before PBP, not a double SR in the same year as PBP.

or even a first? 

looking at the OP it looks like you can register without having even ridden a 400 / 600 in the qualifying year (although I assume you will of course have to do them before your entry is confirmed) maybe it's just a way of spreading out their admin?

Well I suppose the key word is [as it translates] is, "The priority in enrollment will be given to persons who made BRM in 2010. " So surely anybody really keen to do PBP in 2011 will now feel by not doing a 400km in 2011 it's leaving their chances of qualification as being that much slimmer?
Anyway, what do you care, you're not doing it 
[Not sure I am either!]

[Ivo]

Part of the reason behind this probably is to weed out the cyclosportif riders who only do BRM's in the PBP year and are fast enough to opt for a 400 and a 600 with sleeping arrangements. These riders were having severe problems during PBP 2007. The strong advise to French organisers to organise their 400s in 2010 with an evening start only is an extra evidence for this. Loads of French organisers start in the early morning (like 4am) which means for the faster riders that they do their 400 with maybe 2-3 hours riding in the dark.

[The Bairn]

And can any Scottish organisers confirm that they'll be running 400 BRMs in 2010? Please?

All very interesting -

Valkyrie -

I was toying with the idea of organising a 400 in 2010 (as I'm not planning to repeat a Lochaber weekend in 2010), BRM if need be.  A bit more expensive all round and you dont get any extra time for the XX in 4XX distance is the main difference as far as I can see, which seems to encourage events that are "just and no more" over the required distance. 

I have a notion of an Edinburgh - Berwick - Carlisle - Edinburgh which is just about bang on 400 but would like to ride it as a DIY before going anywhere with it.  Redstone is great preparation for the Roc. 

And in any event I'm sure some of the other "ususal suspects" will have qualfying events on offer too.

Does this mean that I get to start talking about PBP as soon as next year - great!     

[vorsprung]

BRM's are registered with ACP - 2010 events have to be in by September this year. The early registration and the fact that it costs a bit more to validate are the main reasons why there are so few outside PBP years.

Given that I am not an organiser and that I do not have an event at the moment- would it be possible for me to do the right stuff with paperwork etc to be a 400 organiser with a BRM event in 2010?

I mean in theory.  Perhaps in practical terms it would not be sensible   Although I am interested in doing this

[frankly frankie]

FF; this BRM400 will create a possible maximum of £5000 extra for ACP; doesn't seem that sinister.

Really I was thinking of the reference to 2006 - if countries are to be given preference based on their record going back that far, that really is moving the goalposts after the ball's been kicked.  I know the Home Office does this sort of thing all the time, but I expect higher standards from ACP.

But I do believe this is mainly about money.  PBP has to be financed, and some of that finance is derived from the tax they levy on every BRM ride ridden, all over the world.  I've no complaints about that - I'm just saying - its the money, they want more BRM events everywhere, and 'qualification' is just a lever.

--

PS Vorsprung I think (AUK's 'rules') you have to have organised a 200 before you can graduate to a 400 - though if exceptional circumstances arise (no-one else doing one in your area) maybe this will have to change.
There's nothing particularly problematic about organising BRM - the main differences:
* slightly altered finish times - in most cases, only a few minutes.
* a higher 'validation fee' per successful rider - means 50p or £1 added to the entry fee.
* you have to supply finish times on your results list (for non-BRM this is not necessary)
* (I assume) no self-validation, you have to send the cards in to AUK
* validation, and therefore return of cards, takes considerably longer.

[Ian H]

Given that I am not an organiser and that I do not have an event at the moment- would it be possible for me to do the right stuff with paperwork etc to be a 400 organiser with a BRM event in 2010?

I mean in theory.  Perhaps in practical terms it would not be sensible   Although I am interested in doing this

This is what the guidelines say-

Events of a standard distance over 200 km are not usually accepted from a new Organiser but exceptions may be made if you are taking over an existing event particularly if a previous Organiser is acting as Mentor and you have the backing and support of an experienced organisation.

Funnily enough I was thinking of something for the SW next year. French-style with a night start.

[vorsprung]

Funnily enough I was thinking of something for the SW next year. French-style with a night start.

Maybe I could just help you with that

[Ian H]

Funnily enough I was thinking of something for the SW next year. French-style with a night start.

Maybe I could just help you with that

Funnily enough I was thinking...

[mikewigley]

Strangely enough we were discussing the dearth of BRM events in this year's calendar.

I've never seen the necessity to run my BRs as BRMs, except in PBP year when the Events Secretary insisted on it.  It costs more and the validation process takes much longer.

[Ian H]

Strangely enough we were discussing the dearth of BRM events in this year's calendar.

I've never seen the necessity to run my BRs as BRMs, except in PBP year when the Events Secretary insisted on it.  It costs more and the validation process takes much longer.

ACP's Brevet 5000 award.

[Jaded]

What is the 'M' for?

[Ian H]

Mondiaux

(Sorry)

[vorsprung]

What is the 'M' for?

Mondiaux ( "World" ) as the BRM is a world recognised thing

[Jaded]

Thanks - so it's really different accreditation, rather than different conditions?

[Andrij]

Mondiaux

(Sorry)

   What an atrocious web site!

[Ian H]

Mondiaux

(Sorry)

   What an atrocious web site!

You haven't met the originator.

[Greenbank]

I'd recommend anyone who wants to not just ensure entry to PBP but also enjoy it to go for a full BRM SR the year before.

I intend to do an SR every year anyway. Hopefully they'll be enough rides in 2010 that are BRM to make it easy. It will certainly affect my choice of rides for that year.

A BRM Severn Across in 2010 would be good (and probably very popular).

[Ivo]

Really I was thinking of the reference to 2006 - if countries are to be given preference based on their record going back that far, that really is moving the goalposts after the ball's been kicked.  I know the Home Office does this sort of thing all the time, but I expect higher standards from ACP.

This part won't be of much influence to AUK. AUK is one of the organisations with a relatively stable amount of entrants for PBP. As I understood this is done because of the experience with especially Italy and Germany where the interest for randonneuring grew massively during the past few years. 2006 is taken as a benchmark (the year before PBP). The 2010 results will be compared with 2006. If the 2010 results will be about the same as in 2006, ACP will expect roughly the same amount of PBP entrants for that country. If the 2010 results show a massive difference with 2006 the quota for that particular country could be adapted, mostly to allow more riders as before. So for countries like Great Britain, Belgium, France and a few other classic PBP contries this won't change much.

[Climberruss]

On the subject of BRM rides in the AUK calendar, this can be a problem in years other than PBP. This year for instance I need to do a BRM SR series to qualify for MGM in Spain. As far as I can make out from their website, non BRM events don't count. This then severely limits the options for qualifying in this country.

Does anybody know which (if any) other 1200km events require BRM series to qualify?

I think organisers should make more events BRM's The extra cost on the entry is hardly going to break the bank.

[Greenbank]

I think organisers should make more events BRM's The extra cost on the entry is hardly going to break the bank.

If the organiser does the required gubbins for the event to qualify for BRM, could they offer both a BR and a BRM entry? Obviously the extra cost of the BRM entry can be passed on directly to the rider...

[Andrij]

I think organisers should make more events BRM's The extra cost on the entry is hardly going to break the bank.

If the organiser does the required gubbins for the event to qualify for BRM, could they offer both a BR and a BRM entry? Obviously the extra cost of the BRM entry can be passed on directly to the rider...

Isn't part of the 'problem' the fact that the event needs to be organised quite early?  IIRC there's no option to add a late season ride to the list after the cut-off date (September?).

[Ivo]

Isn't part of the 'problem' the fact that the event needs to be organised quite early?  IIRC there's no option to add a late season ride to the list after the cut-off date (September?).

No. Required dates are only for direct PBP qualification in 2011. So it would be perfectly possible to organise a 400 in for example september 2010, have it BRM rated and giving you a prefered starting spot.