Turbo training - how often?

[Gandalf]

I've been using the turbo since just after Christmas and I was wondering what the received wisdom was re frequency.  Should it be every day?

I did two and a half hours yesterday using one of the Tacx real live videos and I'm feeling pretty stiff this morning.  The old knees are aching a bit as well, but that route (Passo del Gavia) is an unremitting uphill slog.

Should I have another go today, maybe on flatter terrain?

[Chris S]

I guess it depends what you're trying to achieve.

I use my turbo a few times a week at the moment, but for very specific reasons:

1. Avoiding ice
2. Very repeatable interval sessions
3. Spinning practice.

Where possible, I prefer to ride my bikes out on the road, but we have had more icy weather than one might consider polite, and if there's one thing above all others that drives me indoors onto the turbo, then it's ice.

[inc]

There is no simple answer but I think spending too long on a turbo will lower your IQ  I used one for years because of my job I could not get out on the road. After seeking advice and experimenting I kept the sessions short, 45 min max and good quality. They were normally at the end of a 15 hour working day and I wanted maximum training effect from the shortest duration, A typical session would be 10min progressive warm up followed by a timed 10 miles and what was left as warm down. I would do this every other day and sometimes fit an extra one in. The 10 in the middle was at level three as defined here British Cycling Federation Training Guidelines. If your intensity is less then the duration will need to be longer for any useful  training effect. The setup you have sounds great and a good alternative to a wet cold winters ride but it how do measure any progress assuming you are doing it to improve your fitness.

[Gandalf]

Yes inc it is pretty boring but yesterday I was listening to Radio 4 so it wasn't too bad.  As it happens the progress measuring bit is very well sorted, I can look back on any previous sessions and it gives me duration, average speed, wattage etc.

Looking back a couple of weeks I seem to have improved a bit already.  Looking at your link it looks like I'm usually at level 3 or above for pretty much the whole session

[inc]

Yes,I think some of the modern turbo programmes take away the need to work out your own workloads, progress I suppose. I am not so sure about Radio 4 for level three sessions I couldn't concentrate on a conversation just staying focused on maintaining the effort, revs. watts etc and normally scrambled my brains with AC/DC. I don't think I could ride a turbo for pleasure other than knowing every session was making me fitter for road riding.

[Wendy]

Training for training's sake, or training for a purpose?  If it's training for a purpose, then that purpose should define what and when you're training.  If there's no purpose, then don't bother training.  IMO.

[nmcgann]

I've been using the turbo since just after Christmas and I was wondering what the received wisdom was re frequency.  Should it be every day?

I did two and a half hours yesterday using one of the Tacx real live videos and I'm feeling pretty stiff this morning.  The old knees are aching a bit as well, but that route (Passo del Gavia) is an unremitting uphill slog.

Should I have another go today, maybe on flatter terrain?

Well, that really depends why you are training and what you are training for.

2.5h is serious hardcore turbo, I don't know of many people doing sessions that long. 1h is pretty typical.

I think if you were just looking to keep your winter fitness up something like 3 x 1h turbo sessions at a minimum of "tempo" intensity during the week plus some road riding at the weekend would be enough.

Neil

[vorsprung]

When I had a busted collar bone and couldn't ride on the road I was turbo'ing most days

I'd do a "heavy session" of 15 minute warmup then 5 or 10 minutes at 85%+ HRM then a short break and then repeat the 85%.  I ended up doing 4x5 minutes @ 90%HRM.  That was twice a week usually.  The plan was three times a week but the effort of these was too much normally.

At the weekend I'd do a "long ride" of 30 minutes at 70% and then 100 minutes at 80%.  I'd usually do these on saturday and then it would take sunday and monday to recover.

The other days I'd either stay off the turbo or do an hour at 70%.  There was a few recovery rides too.

After 3 months of this I was sick of the turbo.  It seemed to work though as I did a reasonably easy 200k almost straight away when I finally did get back on the road.

[mattc]

"turbo" training principles are the same as "normal" training, so same principles apply.


I do worry slightly that some turbo users are never riding their bikes gently. Only doing hard sessions is, perhaps counter-intuitively, not the most efficient way to get faster. The pros are doing 3/4 of their time at gentle intensities. Even the sprinters do more easy base miles than you might think.

[Gandalf]

Thanks for the replies chaps.  I should just clarify that Saturday's 2.5 hours wasn't straight through, I was doing half an hour at a time, having a five minute break then carrying on.

As far as my objective is concerned its really a case of recognising that with the best will in the world, at this time of the year my outdoor sorties are going to be few and far between.  I'm not in a position where I can commute either.  Just trying to get ahead in preparation for the summer really, but I am doing a duathlon in April.

The other thing of course is an ongoing desire to lose weight.

I don't want it to be like last year where by the time I got going summer had more or less been and gone.  I really want this year to be the one where I do some proper rides and stop struggling with hills.

[nmcgann]

"turbo" training principles are the same as "normal" training, so same principles apply.


I do worry slightly that some turbo users are never riding their bikes gently. Only doing hard sessions is, perhaps counter-intuitively, not the most efficient way to get faster. The pros are doing 3/4 of their time at gentle intensities. Even the sprinters do more easy base miles than you might think.

Although pros do have lots of time to train. When time to ride is limited there may not be the time to get the lower-intensity in AND the hard sessions in that kind of proportion.

I do maybe 50:50 proportion of hard to easy(er) in my training week. I'd like to do more of the easier riding, but I simply don't have time.

Neil

[mattc]

Good point Neil. The sports scientists and coaches only have really good data for the pros, who have 5 hours a day riding available; so we don't REALLY know what's best if you have 1 hour a day or less. We all have to make some sort of guesstimate!

[Chris S]

Intervals are a good way of making the most of a limited time budget.

I've noticed tangible on-the-road benefits from a couple of 30min sessions (5 minute warm up, 5x3m "work" intervals with 1m spin between each, 5 minute warm down) a week on the turbo - and the turbo helps by making the sessions reproducible.

[Wendy]

You may like to read this article on intervals vs long slow:

Understanding Intervals

[mattc]

Nice one Gonzo Mikey. 
Lots of interesting stuff. Tricky to analyse, as it is a mixture of detailed short-period testing, empirical comment on elite regimes, and some well thought out conjecture. What it lacks is empirical data comparing the different regimes - this is, of course, the most time-consuming/expensive to produce.

The last section was interesting:

Is there ever a place for the really short, fast stuff ?

Yes, if your event duration is in the 3-4 minute range (1000 meters for rowers), then ANAEROBIC CAPACITY will play a contributing role. Even in these short events, aerobic endurance is still the foundation of success, but your ability to tolerate very high lactic acid levels and maintain good technique (rowers, swimmers) is critical over the concluding moments of the race.

I would conjecture that this describes the more extreme hill-climbing that us mortals do (maybe not me), as well as serious road-racing. If you're TTing or doing longer rides it just doesn't matter.

[Wendy]

Gonzo?

[Chris S]

You may like to read this article on intervals vs long slow:

Understanding Intervals

Very useful - thanks for that BM. What that shows is, as usual, I've been doing it all wrong 

Back to the 2x20's for me I guess...

[gonzo]

Nice one Gonzo. 

No problem. It's good to know that people on this forum can read my mind - it'll save me lots of typing time!

PS. I think you meant Mikey!

[mattc]

Oops.

Of course I should really be crediting a Mr Stephen Seiler ...