Author Topic: Michelin Tyres - Product Requirements! (Read 21942 times)

Biggsy · « **Reply #100 on:** 02 February, 2009, 12:59:31 pm »

I don't think a very good commuting tyre from a major brand would need a lot of advertising. Just get it into the shops and online stores and people will discover it and try it. If it's really good, they'll buy it again and spread the word.

Tewdric · « **Reply #101 on:** 02 February, 2009, 01:25:02 pm »

Quote from: KidJambo on 02 February, 2009, 11:48:49 am

maybe you guys might have some thoughts on this - is what media would be best to advertise/promote this sort of tyre.

Cycling Plus is the mag most read by the audax and commuting communities I would guess. A lot of commuters are also in the CTC for the insurance, but I don't know what their membership is like these days. Arrivee, the Audax UK magazine, is a good bet for advertising light touring and commuting kit, but again probably has a smallish circulation, PM me if you want Tim the ad manager's email addy.

hatler · « **Reply #102 on:** 02 February, 2009, 01:32:03 pm »

Quote from: robbarker on 02 February, 2009, 01:25:02 pm

Cycling Plus is the mag most read by the audax and commuting communities I would guess. A lot of commuters are also in the CTC for the insurance, but I don't know what their membership is like these days. Arrivee, the Audax UK magazine, is a good bet for advertising light touring and commuting kit, but again probably has a smallish circulation, PM me if you want Tim the ad manager's email addy.

CTC membership was approx 70,000 in 2007, and it's on an upward trajectory.

Highest for a long time I think.

Adrian · « **Reply #103 on:** 02 February, 2009, 01:52:42 pm »

Lots of London commuters are members of London Cycling Campaign, in excess of 10,000 members. They have a bi monthly magazine, which might be worth your attention.

GruB · « **Reply #104 on:** 02 February, 2009, 01:55:40 pm »

Quote from: LittleWheelsandBig on 02 February, 2009, 12:22:41 pm

Quote from: KidJambo on 02 February, 2009, 10:08:36 am

My point exactly - one person in favour of retro (which is big at the moment but we are talking products for 2011 here so will it still be big then? do you have a crystal ball?) with another who wants co-ordinating colours - have you seen the array of colours that frame manufacturers use?

It sounds like my preference would be easier for a retailer to satisfy than GruB's. Black with amber will do it every time for me while GruB will want a different colour combination every time he buys a new bike, to match the fashion du jour.

I'm happy with two at the minute. Simple requirements for me. Yellow and black and blue and black.

Lucky · « **Reply #105 on:** 02 February, 2009, 03:32:24 pm »

Quote from: KidJambo on 02 February, 2009, 10:10:33 am

I am joking - you are perfectly welcome to your opinions - I know I have them about just about everything - but can I ask you why you don't regard Michelin as a serious tyre brand? Is this just a cycle tyre thing or in general?

Just a thought, but I wonder if Michelin's image is harmed by a lack of presence at the top level of professional sport?

If you asked me to name the tyre I most associate with professional road racing, it'd be the Vittoria Corsa, or maybe the Continental Competition. Time trialling? Conti Tempo. Spring classics? Vittoria Pave. Track? Conti Tempo or Sonderklasse.

If I buy Vittoria or Conti tyres, I feel I'm getting the same technology used and trusted by the world's top riders. With Michelin, I don't get that.

Obviously, breaking into top-level pro sport would be expensive for Michelin, given that all the tyres listed above are tubulars, and Michelin's current capabilities are focussed around clincher tyres. But you might benefit from developing a high-end tubular, and getting it onto a Protour team's bikes, possibly making a loss on it, but making the money back through increased clincher sales? It would certainly strengthen the "premium brand" image.

KidJambo · « **Reply #106 on:** 02 February, 2009, 04:45:55 pm »

We do actually currently have TWO Protour teams - AG2R and Bouygues Telecom riding on our tyres and, ahem, tubs!

KidJambo · « **Reply #107 on:** 02 February, 2009, 04:54:11 pm »

Oh, and these teams have been riding on Pro3 since 2007 - exactly the same technology as you can buy in the shops...except now of course at some point the with be used for R&D and testing for the Pro4! LOL

Lucky · « **Reply #108 on:** 02 February, 2009, 05:15:16 pm »

Ok, sorry, noted.

In that case, prehaps you should be shouting a bit louder about who rides your tyres?

Tewdric · « **Reply #109 on:** 02 February, 2009, 05:21:13 pm »

Quote from: KidJambo on 02 February, 2009, 04:54:11 pm

Oh, and these teams have been riding on Pro3 since 2007 - exactly the same technology as you can buy in the shops...

What, Continental sprint tubs with Pro Race 3 stickers on? ;-)

Sorry , that was uncalled for!

I have to say that the Pro Race 3s and latex tubes currently adorning my composite-framed Giant TCR feel for all the world like riding tubs. They are very good indeed.

KidJambo · « **Reply #110 on:** 02 February, 2009, 05:46:13 pm »

Quote from: robbarker on 02 February, 2009, 05:21:13 pm

Quote from: KidJambo on 02 February, 2009, 04:54:11 pm

Oh, and these teams have been riding on Pro3 since 2007 - exactly the same technology as you can buy in the shops...

What, Continental sprint tubs with Pro Race 3 stickers on? ;-)

Sorry , that was uncalled for!

I have to say that the Pro Race 3s and latex tubes currently adorning my composite-framed Giant TCR feel for all the world like riding tubs. They are very good indeed.

Lets just say that its impossible for us to have a Protour team without tubs (although the teams we do have are contracted to use clinchers 80%+ of the time) so we have to get our top-end tubs from somewhere but they don't come from Germany!

KidJambo · « **Reply #111 on:** 02 February, 2009, 05:48:04 pm »

The one reason we don't make tubs anymore is that we wrongly thought they were dying out and that advancements in clincher technology and latex tubes plus the possibility of tubeless technologies would see no need for riders coming into the sport to have to opt for tubs and they would eventually die out - we seriously underestimated the lure of the tub!

KidJambo · « **Reply #112 on:** 02 February, 2009, 06:02:49 pm »

Quote from: Lucky on 02 February, 2009, 05:15:16 pm

Ok, sorry, noted.

In that case, prehaps you should be shouting a bit louder about who rides your tyres?

For our UK advertising I prefer to focus on the Michelin brand - which is a strength - and the technical superiority of the product in question, be it road or MTB. Maybe I'm making a mistake? I refer you back to a previous note where I wrote that Michelin is known as a brand that is technologically advanced but also dependable and reliable etc so why spend money on advertising to try and create an image thats more sporty and dynamic in the eyes of the consumer (and if Formula1 and MotoGP don't mark you out as a sporty brand then I don't know what does) rather than just playing on the strengths that the consumer already knows you for? I guess this image we have should stand us in good stead in the commuter market!

Lucky · « **Reply #113 on:** 02 February, 2009, 06:20:44 pm »

Fair enough. I just get the impression the main market for a tyre like the Pro³ is going to be club riders looking for a fast, grippy, but dependable tyre for weekend racing - riders who are typically influenced strongly by what kit the pros are riding. Yet Michelin doesn't seem to be targeting these riders specifically?

For commuting, sure, you seem to be doing something very right with the Krylion!

gonzo · « **Reply #114 on:** 02 February, 2009, 07:17:56 pm »

I guess that I should add that I very nearly bought some prorace3s a while back because they came in the right colours, but in the end stuck with Conti tyres (GP4000S) because they don't puncture. Admittedly, I check the tyres after every ride and brush the tyre with my glove/shoe after riding through gravel, but I would feel confident riding off road on the tyres I've got. If I was convinced that your tyres were as puncture resistant, I probably would have switched.

Tewdric · « **Reply #115 on:** 02 February, 2009, 07:49:37 pm »

Quote from: KidJambo on 02 February, 2009, 05:46:13 pm

Lets just say that its impossible for us to have a Protour team without tubs

As a matter of interest, are the tubs for the mountain stages (I'm thinking of the descents particularly) and time trials? Or just for the lead riders?

gonzo · « **Reply #116 on:** 02 February, 2009, 08:10:41 pm »

Quote from: robbarker on 02 February, 2009, 07:49:37 pm

As a matter of interest, are the tubs for the mountain stages (I'm thinking of the descents particularly) and time trials? Or just for the lead riders?

All lightweight carbon wheels are tubular so any time you see a black brake track, it's a tub.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #117 on:** 02 February, 2009, 08:16:09 pm »

Quote from: gonzo on 02 February, 2009, 08:10:41 pm

All lightweight carbon wheels are tubular .

Not so Lightweight clincher wheels

Zipp

David Martin · « **Reply #118 on:** 02 February, 2009, 08:49:03 pm »

Quote from: gonzo on 02 February, 2009, 07:17:56 pm

I guess that I should add that I very nearly bought some prorace3s a while back because they came in the right colours, but in the end stuck with Conti tyres (GP4000S) because they don't puncture. Admittedly, I check the tyres after every ride and brush the tyre with my glove/shoe after riding through gravel, but I would feel confident riding off road on the tyres I've got. If I was convinced that your tyres were as puncture resistant, I probably would have switched.

Gonzo, I am 90+ kilos (a slight lie, I have finally dropped under 90 for the first time in 2 years). I ride Pro2/3 grip on and off road, sharp gravel paths, urban, rural etc.

I have had two punctures since I started using them. One would have punctured any tyre. The other was a snakebite from hitting a pothole at speed at night. (did for the rim too, I hit it that hard).

IME the grip is superlative, the puncture resistance excellent and the general feel fantastic. They do cut up a lot but that is just surface. They do wear fast at the back but I am a bit heavy and 23mm is not ideal for light touring.

Next time, try some. I think you'll like them.

..d

gonzo · « **Reply #119 on:** 02 February, 2009, 09:07:13 pm »

Quote from: Monsieur Pumpé on 02 February, 2009, 08:16:09 pm

Quote from: gonzo on 02 February, 2009, 08:10:41 pm
All lightweight carbon wheels are tubular .

Not so Lightweight clincher wheels

Zipp

I hadn't realised that lightweight had gone pulled off the all carbon clincher although I had seen it on LEW rims. The zipps are nearly 2kg for the clinchers though!

DM - I'll give them a go (KJ - just so you can justify your position on this forum; you've just gained a customer!)

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #120 on:** 02 February, 2009, 09:11:25 pm »

I wonder if the '80%' of the time spent on Michelin tyres includes training

(Pro race 3 are bloody good though!)

KidJambo · « **Reply #121 on:** 03 February, 2009, 08:31:22 am »

Quote from: David Martin on 02 February, 2009, 08:49:03 pm

Quote from: gonzo on 02 February, 2009, 07:17:56 pm
I guess that I should add that I very nearly bought some prorace3s a while back because they came in the right colours, but in the end stuck with Conti tyres (GP4000S) because they don't puncture. Admittedly, I check the tyres after every ride and brush the tyre with my glove/shoe after riding through gravel, but I would feel confident riding off road on the tyres I've got. If I was convinced that your tyres were as puncture resistant, I probably would have switched.

Gonzo, I am 90+ kilos (a slight lie, I have finally dropped under 90 for the first time in 2 years). I ride Pro2/3 grip on and off road, sharp gravel paths, urban, rural etc.

I have had two punctures since I started using them. One would have punctured any tyre. The other was a snakebite from hitting a pothole at speed at night. (did for the rim too, I hit it that hard).

IME the grip is superlative, the puncture resistance excellent and the general feel fantastic. They do cut up a lot but that is just surface. They do wear fast at the back but I am a bit heavy and 23mm is not ideal for light touring.

Next time, try some. I think you'll like them.

..d

Your "Michelin fan of the week" award is in the post!

The one thing I have noticed with the Pro3 compared to its predecessor is that it does appear to look more cut-up and worn-out quicker but, as David said, this is just aesthetical and does not impare the performance of the tyre.

KidJambo · « **Reply #122 on:** 03 February, 2009, 08:32:37 am »

Quote from: gonzo on 02 February, 2009, 09:07:13 pm

Quote from: Monsieur Pumpé on 02 February, 2009, 08:16:09 pm
Quote from: gonzo on 02 February, 2009, 08:10:41 pm
All lightweight carbon wheels are tubular .

Not so Lightweight clincher wheels

Zipp

I hadn't realised that lightweight had gone pulled off the all carbon clincher although I had seen it on LEW rims. The zipps are nearly 2kg for the clinchers though!

DM - I'll give them a go (KJ - just so you can justify your position on this forum; you've just gained a customer!)

Then my work here is done and I can sleep easy at night once again!

KidJambo · « **Reply #123 on:** 03 February, 2009, 08:46:56 am »

Quote from: Monsieur Pumpé on 02 February, 2009, 09:11:25 pm

I wonder if the '80%' of the time spent on Michelin tyres includes training

(Pro race 3 are bloody good though!)

If it did, that would probably mean they did all their training on clinchers and all their racing on tubs! I should have specified that the 80% is in competition use!

David Martin · « **Reply #124 on:** 03 February, 2009, 02:01:22 pm »

Quote from: KidJambo on 03 February, 2009, 08:31:22 am

Your "Michelin fan of the week" award is in the post!

Well, have to keep the local population in work. We have a michelin factory that IIRC produces mainly tyres for North America. They did sponsor a kids cycling event in Dundee a few (6?) years ago that was really popular. Maybe they might be interested in doing something like that again...

..d