Michelin Tyres - Product Requirements!

[David Martin]

I loved the Pro 2 Grip (after your reccomendation). They did cut up a bit (but rarely punctured) and wear rather fast, but I suppose that is the tradeoff for superlative grip. I have changed the back one to a pro3 as it had gone almost square with wear - the black had just worn through in a couple of places.

The one comment I got tonight at the club was that the tyres themselves performed really well, but one wet day and they look really crappy - impossible to get the stains out.
So black and grey it is then.

I might be tempted by a larger tyre. I might not.

..d

[GruB]

As many of you know, I loved the Krylions.  They performed very well in the faerie resistance stakes and were good for several months of heavy commuting.  Good value for money / performance.

Then some bright spark decided to stop producing them.

This caused me to have to try other brands.  Some of which were shite for my purposes.  This caused me endless hassle and annoyance. 

I love riding my bike but that buzz wavers when the enjoyment factor is eroded ( changing punctures every other day for example ).

I have finally found a tyre that compares to my love for the Krylions.  Continental GP All Seasons.  So far great value for money / performance.

What I am trying to say with evidence here is that all it will take is one little glitch in the Krylion world ( once it returns ) for me to stop using them. 

So AJ, has the fabric / design / etc of the Krylion been changed or are we getting the excellent tyre back, as it was before it went away?

[BornAgainCyclist]

Dunlop used to sell "tread stopping compound" many years ago.  It was a black rubber solution in a tube, which hardened to about the same consitency as a tyre tread one it was applied into a cut.  It stopped flints and glass getting into the cut and working through the tyre.  I've tried lots of different compounds including Superglue on my commuting bike, but nothing seems to work well.

I realise it wouldn't make a fortune for Michelin, but it would be a good service to cyclists, which could generate a bit of business for Michelin tyres when it came to replacement.

[Jacomus]

A cycling version of your Pilot Road 2 motorbike tyres

[nightrider]

A good quality training/spotive /audax tyre needs to be-
Quite light and fast although this isnt as important as it is on a race tyre.
Puncture resitant and cut resitant.
It should last for about 3000 miles.
It should be avalible in 23c/25c/28c
Avalible in Black/grey look atractive, coloured writing looks nice.
Competive price<£30
You make it we will buy it.

[mrcharly-YHT]

A high proportion of people on here recommend the Pasela TG, but many people are put off by the brown and weak sidewalls.

Duplicate that performance with black, stronger sidewalls for a similar price and you have a tyre that will sell.

[hubner]

A high proportion of people on here recommend the Pasela TG, but many people are put off by the brown and weak sidewalls.

Duplicate that performance with black, stronger sidewalls for a similar price and you have a tyre that will sell.

The Pasela TG is only relatively fast rolling because it has 'weak' (actually thin and supple) sidewalls. The colour is not relevant. Panaracer could make the casing thicker and heavier, and cover the sidewalls with a thick layer of rubber, but that would increase the rolling resistance and make the tyre slower.

Tyres that are relatively fast rolling and light are always going to be be more fragile than heavy tyres with thick treads and sidewalls.

[Lucky]

Competive price>£30

I think you mean <£30!

Careful with that exclamation mark:
30 = 30
30! = 30 x 29 x ... x 2 x 1 = 2.6 x 10³²

Now that's an expensive tyre!

[nuttycyclist]

Additional thought - despite my oft repeated claims of hi-viz is useless, I quite like the reflective band on the Marathon plus tyres.  No additional weight or effort required, but good side visibility at night.

Maybe that could go on a new tyre, or if Michelin wanted their own "stamp" how about a zig-zag or broken stripe so it would be a little more distinctive?  (Lots of printed Michelin Men a few inches apart?)

[blackpuddinonnabike]

I am very very impressed with the Michelin Pro Race 3 tyres I got at the end of last year. Really just bought as a stop-gap tyre till the Halo Twin Rail Couriers made there way here. But I'm having second thoughts now, because the grip on the Michelins in pretty good (better than the Panaracer Paselas I have on another bike) and they roll nicely. Seem pretty tough as well (touch wood).

Why was I considering the Halos? Cos they're all white and I'm a tart, but the white on the Michelins I have is a nice amount.

Why won't I change the Paselas on the toher bike? Cos I like the amber wall with the black tread, so another vote for something with the amber wall.

As an aside, how open would you be to some questions for answers to make an article on Michelin tyres at citycycling.co.uk?

[clarion]

Additional thought - despite my oft repeated claims of hi-viz is useless, I quite like the reflective band on the Marathon plus tyres.  No additional weight or effort required, but good side visibility at night.

Maybe that could go on a new tyre, or if Michelin wanted their own "stamp" how about a zig-zag or broken stripe so it would be a little more distinctive?  (Lots of printed Michelin Men a few inches apart?)

+1 for that as an idea.  Very good for visibility, even if mucky.

Also helps to find your tent at night

[Biggsy]

Tyres that are relatively fast rolling and light are always going to be be more fragile than heavy tyres with thick treads and sidewalls.

It is true that some compromise has to be made to make a tyre light and fast rolling, but that doesn't have to mean fragile sidewalls.  Vittoria Open Corsa CX manages it by using a very high-TPI casing that is doubled up at the sidewalls, and by only having only a minimal amount of rubber on the tread.

Of course people want more than a minimal amount of rubber on a tyre like the Pasela, so it has to be made fast-rolling by having thin sidewalls.  I'm not sure they have to be quite so fragile for them to be pretty fast, though.  A slicker tread and higher TPI would help speed it up in other ways.  I wouldn't mind a slightly slower tyre that is as puncture resistant and durable as the Pasela, and with black sidewalls.

[Chris N]

I wouldn't mind a slightly slower tyre that is as puncture resistant and durable as the Pasela, and with black sidewalls.

You could try the Panaracer T-serv - same rubber as Pasela with kevlar bead and black sidewalls.  About 100 grams heavier for the same size - but I can't tell the difference between a 32mm Pasela and a 37mm T-serv.

ps.  Sorry, KJ - for recommending competitor's tyres.

[Biggsy]

Thanks.

There is a kevlar-beaded version of the Pasela, too.

[mike]

just dont be tempted by the panaracer Extreme Duro tyre.  If I wanted to ride on wooden wheels, I'd buy some, alright?

[vorsprung]

What I'd buy is a 28mm version of the pro race.   The 25mm are great but they are just beaten by 28mm panaracer pasellas on comfort as the panaracers have more air in them.  I had to do an "a" and "b" test for a week with both types of tyres to decide which to use.

I'm sure there is a demand for this type of tyre.  For example the US magazine bicycle quarterly have their own favoured tyre ( see here ) which has "it's fast and it's 28mm" as a USP.

The grip/puncture resistance/speed/weight of the pro race is ideal.  I'm sure there are technical problems with scaling the tyre up a bit more but hey, it would be worth it

[hubner]

Tyres that are relatively fast rolling and light are always going to be be more fragile than heavy tyres with thick treads and sidewalls.

It is true that some compromise has to be made to make a tyre light and fast rolling, but that doesn't have to mean fragile sidewalls.  Vittoria Open Corsa CX manages it by using a very high-TPI casing that is doubled up at the sidewalls, and by only having only a minimal amount of rubber on the tread.

Of course people want more than a minimal amount of rubber on a tyre like the Pasela, so it has to be made fast-rolling by having thin sidewalls.  I'm not sure they have to be quite so fragile for them to be pretty fast, though.  A slicker tread and higher TPI would help speed it up in other ways.  I wouldn't mind a slightly slower tyre that is as puncture resistant and durable as the Pasela, and with black sidewalls.

I should have said for the same price, the comment I was replying did say for a similar price. All else being equal, tyres with higher TPI casings are going to be more expensive than tyres with lower. It's all a compromise between durability, price and performance. The Pasela could have been made with a higher TPI, but that would have made it more expensive.

[Biggsy]

Goint point.  Personally I woudn't mind a higher price as long as the tyre is reasonably durable, which can be acheived mainly by having a decent amount of rubber.

[andrew_s]

What I'd buy is a 28mm version of the pro race. 

+1

I currently use GP 4 Seasons as I like it better than the gatorskin or pasela. Not much choice in a fast-ish tyre that will let me avoid snakebites whilst retaining a modicum of comfort

[Bledlow]

Yet another 25C vote.

[KidJambo]

Michelin's finest are always on my best bike. However, I noticed the Pro 3 seems to be far more susceptible to cuts than previous models. I reckon it's city-street glass that's the problem - but susceptibility to cuts is what I'd like to see improved.

I like to be made aware of things like this - I have internal tests that show the resilience to damage of the Pro3 is almost identical (within a couple of percent) to the Pro2. However, we have made it lighter (around 20g) and gripier (softer rubber) and even I have trouble understanding how this doesn't affect the durability.

[Sergeant Pluck]

I certainly found the Pro3s very susceptible to cuts and the consequences. Fantastic tyre in other respects. There seems to be a huge variation in users' experiences with the Pro3 in this regard - could it be that while they are resistant to penetrations by sharp points, they are very susceptible to cuts from a sharp edge?

[KidJambo]

I'm a conti user, but the main things that would make me switch are:
- Greater cut resistance
- Easier to mount on wheels

I currently use GP4000S' but they have two big problems:
1) They wear too quickly - I had to replace my last set after about 2561miles. Inevitable with race tyres I guess.
2) Stupid naming convention!

NB. I seem to remember that your last fashion tip was that we were going to move back to fluro!

I know this seems strange to say but different tyres tend to mount differently on different rims - Michelin and Mavic always seem to go well as do Vittoria with Campgnolo - can anyone see a pattern here? lol

On the "stupid names" you have to remember that our products are sold globally so we have to find names that either have a general meaning to everyone or mean nothing to anyone. Its a bit like cars - wasn't it Alfa who nearly launched a car called the "Rusty" becuase it meant something desirable in some foreign language?

Oh, and flourescent is gonna be big in 2009 - just seen Raleigh's new range of Avanti premium road bikes and flourescent plays a big part on the top end models - but I meant for 2010....please try and keep up! lol

[KidJambo]

I'm sure you've seen my "bombproof commuter" thread.

Well that is what I need - fire a small, nail laden, tactical nuke at it, and it comes out the other side grinning like a loon. Obviously for a commuter, punctures are a disaster.

I am favouring the marathon supreme at the moment - what is the rough time frame for your alternative? Are we talking later as in "the next few weeks" or later as in "maybe in time for Christmas"?

I want 700x32, cos my commuter bike will also be my tourer - and touring this summer will be partly off road (tracks n trails)

The latest information I have is that the first size - which I think will be 35C - is expected late spring possibly May with other sizes (definately be a 28C, a 32C, a 40C and a 26" plus others possible) "later in 2009. I'll try and keep you updated as the information changes

[KidJambo]

Tubular versions of the PRO³ Race and Light 

I thought that this might come up - I think the chances of seeing a Michelin-manufactured tub again are somewhere close to zero I'm afraid!