Author Topic: You don't pay no road tax  (Read 5044 times)

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #125 on: November 29, 2019, 10:31:59 am »
My recollection was that it was the entire VED take would be ring-fenced for roads, and my understanding is that that would be for the Highways Agency to spend on trunk routes, motorways, etc, not local roads.

That's my recollection too.

A very good friend of mine brought this up a while back. I was sitting in her house and her son was with us. We both rounded on her and said that that was not how it worked. I said it meant she only ever was allowed to drive on motorways. She waved a white flag very quickly. :)
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #126 on: November 29, 2019, 10:33:53 am »
Yes, in England, VED is hypothecated to the National Roads Fund, almost all of which is spent on the Highways England road network. Not sure how the non-English part is divided up.

This is a particular sore spot in London, because TfL doesn't receive any VED money, doesn't receive a local maintenance grant that local authorities, and no longer received a general subsidy grant from central government. So TfL's road network is paid for entirely by council tax payers and whatever other income sources TfL has.

(some people like to describe this is tube passengers are subsidising car users, but the tube doesn't make a net profit once you account for capital spending, so that doesn't quite work)

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #127 on: November 29, 2019, 10:47:02 am »
It is surely the case that London has a far greater percentage of its journeys on foot and by bike than any other UK city, so it's cyclists and pedestrians subsidising both, I would have thought. Car ownership in London is considerably lower than the UK average so that would make my hypothesis even more likely.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #128 on: November 29, 2019, 11:24:10 am »
Yes, in England, VED is hypothecated to the National Roads Fund, almost all of which is spent on the Highways England road network. Not sure how the non-English part is divided up.

This is a particular sore spot in London, because TfL doesn't receive any VED money, doesn't receive a local maintenance grant that local authorities, and no longer received a general subsidy grant from central government. So TfL's road network is paid for entirely by council tax payers and whatever other income sources TfL has.

(some people like to describe this is tube passengers are subsidising car users, but the tube doesn't make a net profit once you account for capital spending, so that doesn't quite work)

So VED is still an emissions based vehicle tax for motorists, for which electric vehicles are zero rated, and which cyclists do not pay.  i.e. VED is not a roadtax, as it's based on emissions and some vehicle owners are not required to pay anything.   Roads are still funded from general taxation, it's just that VED contributes towards this pot of tax revenue.  Sound fair correct?
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #129 on: November 29, 2019, 12:11:32 pm »
Aha !

Not enacted yet according to this piece.

Quote
From the 2020-21 financial year income from VED in England will be hypothecated to a new road fund, to contribute towards the costs of the Strategic Road Network (SRN).
Rust never sleeps

Cudzoziemiec

  • Dormant but requires tea
Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #130 on: November 29, 2019, 04:56:47 pm »
The Highways England network is the strategic routes: motorways and the most important primary routes. I don't think VED raises enough to pay for A, B and unclassified roads as well.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/roads-managed-by-highways-england
At some point in the ride, you might find yourself in Osaka with Spanish speakers where you had expected Edinburgh talking Greek. This does not mean you are lost, or even off route.

Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #131 on: November 29, 2019, 06:16:23 pm »
Rust never sleeps

fd3

Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #132 on: November 29, 2019, 06:53:55 pm »
VED should pay for an equitable share of traffic police and most roads; and be charged accordingly.  A fraction of that expense should come from general taxation to cover the equitable share that pedestrians and cyclists enjoy.

Look! pigs!
[/I could be wrong]

Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #133 on: November 29, 2019, 10:08:33 pm »
Well, some authorities at least are bidding [August 2019] for a slice of the £28.8 BILLION  - a polite £700m request in this case -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOZKDEBzGWI

https://twitter.com/Transport4North/status/1189548652995469312
Our £700m bid to  @transportgovuk
 National Roads Fund includes the Shalesmoor Gateway scheme in
@SheffCityRegion
. The work would not only improve the road’s capacity and reliability, but also support cycling and walking.


LOL!

The London position is laid out here by Sadiq Khan,  December 2018
https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2018/3287

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #134 on: November 29, 2019, 10:16:06 pm »
VED should pay for an equitable share of traffic police and most roads; and be charged accordingly.  A fraction of that expense should come from general taxation to cover the equitable share that pedestrians and cyclists enjoy.

Look! pigs!

It really shouldn't. Then people will think they paid for a right to drive on it.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Cudzoziemiec

  • Dormant but requires tea
Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #135 on: November 29, 2019, 11:06:01 pm »
VED should pay for an equitable share of traffic police and most roads; and be charged accordingly.  A fraction of that expense should come from general taxation to cover the equitable share that pedestrians and cyclists enjoy.

Look! pigs!

It really shouldn't. Then people will think they paid for a right to drive on it.

J
You are Winston Churchill and ICMFP.
At some point in the ride, you might find yourself in Osaka with Spanish speakers where you had expected Edinburgh talking Greek. This does not mean you are lost, or even off route.

fd3

Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #136 on: November 30, 2019, 12:04:21 am »
VED should pay for an equitable share of traffic police and most roads; and be charged accordingly.  A fraction of that expense should come from general taxation to cover the equitable share that pedestrians and cyclists enjoy.

Look! pigs!

It really shouldn't. Then people will think they paid for a right to drive on it.

J
It's okay, if they paid their equitable share they would pay 5-10x as much and there would be 80% less cars on the roads.
[/I could be wrong]

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #137 on: November 30, 2019, 12:05:41 am »
It's okay, if they paid their equitable share they would pay 5-10x as much and there would be 80% less cars on the roads.

People won't understand that. People will shout shit at cyclists out of stupidity.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #138 on: November 30, 2019, 12:25:22 am »
People will shout shit at cyclists out of stupidity.

Which differs from the current arrangement how?
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #139 on: November 30, 2019, 04:19:26 pm »
People will shout shit at cyclists out of stupidity.

Which differs from the current arrangement how?

They would have some basis behind their shouts, rather than it being bollocks.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

tonycollinet

  • No Longer a western province of Númenor
Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #140 on: December 01, 2019, 08:34:40 pm »
Here is a map of the Strategic Roads Network.

Perfect - so road tax will fund the roads cyclists can't go on - which is a perfect reply to those who say "you don't pay"

Not that the morons will be able to understand it.

Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #141 on: December 01, 2019, 09:07:34 pm »
Perfect response is "oh yes I do"

Re: You don't pay no road tax
« Reply #142 on: December 05, 2019, 11:23:52 pm »
Public transport users subsidise road use in London -although obviously TfL buses do also use them.
https://www.centreforlondon.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Fair-Access.pdf
FAIR ACCESS: TOWARDS A TRANSPORT SYSTEM FOR EVERYONE
Centre for London 2019

In a recent report,[Barrett, S. (2019)] Centre for London recommended that the Mayor should replace the Congestion Charge and Ultra Low Emission Zone (as well as any local road tolls) with a city-wide distance-based system of road user charging – and that the proceeds should be invested in road maintenance, public transport provision and environmental and public realm measures supporting walking and cycling.

The way that London’s roads are currently funded is inherently unfair: direct income from motorists (from the Congestion Charge and Ultra Low Emission Zone) is insufficient to cover road maintenance and investment on the TfL road network, so it must be supported by Underground fares revenue and other income. It can be argued that using an enhanced road user charge to support Underground fare payers would correct that injustice


from the Mayor of London:
As of 2017/18, TfL no longer receives an operational grant from central Government and roads within London are excluded from receiving Local Highways Maintenance funding – available to other local highway authorities in England. This lack of funding has required TfL to stop all non-safety critical road renewals for two years (2018/19 to 2019/20).