Author Topic: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London  (Read 226 times)

Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« on: Yesterday at 05:35:15 pm »
I have to get this off my chest. I drive a car in London, have had a licence for 40 years (yeah I know - do I wear a pork pie hat).
Recently I have noticed many more delivery drivers on mopeds. They are a menace. They will cut up your inside to gain seconds and really look like they don't know the dangers of being sideswiped.
Nowt wrong with courier riders etc. - it just seems these ar youths sent out on rickety mopeds with no idea of the 'rules of the road' (yeah my pork pie hat is showing).

Electric scooters are getting bad too. I've seen a few doing idiotic things on the road, like crossing junctions when it suits them and weaving across the road.
You would feel awful if you hit one but again they seem oblivious to the normal rules of the road.

Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 05:39:14 pm »
Having said what I just said abotu scooters and mopeds, I witnessed several acts of really bad agressive driving today. So much tat I wonder seriously if the drivers are on drugs. Both times small hot hatch types. First one was on my inside as mr delivery scooter passed me. The hot hatch guy proceeded to overtake moped, which gained him first place at a red light. Which he ignored and took a left anyway. A screaming hurry for something - I really wonder if drug induced.

Second incident at a miniroundabout near my home. I know there is an active 20mph speed camera jsut after this roundabout. I am at the back of a three car queue going onto the roundabout, on the other side there is a bus approaching. Chappig in a small Merc an't be bothered to wait, so overtakes the three of us,
enters the mini roundabout by the exit lane then straight lines it. Horrifically aggressive driving.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 06:11:04 pm »
You would feel awful if you hit one but again they seem oblivious to the normal rules of the road.

They think they're invincible, just because they're from the future.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

MikeFromLFE

  • Previously known as Millimole
Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 06:25:35 pm »
Since I learned to calm down and not give a FF about anyone else's behaviour on the road* I've found driving, cycling and motorcycling* so much less stressful. It's a bloomin' hard thing to do, but learning the art of zen is well worth it.

*But...... I agree that there is a huge potential problem building up around electric scooter riding.
*As a pedestrian (I can't do zen on two feet) the riders have the potential to seriously piss me off, almost as much as pavement parkers.
The genie is out of the bottle as regards these scooters, and I don't know what the answer (or quite what the question) is.
Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 06:26:49 pm »
The genie is out of the bottle as regards these scooters, and I don't know what the answer (or quite what the question) is.

Cycle infrastructure that's so good people actually use it?
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 06:51:33 pm »
That sounds good, Kim but I don't think it can survive the electric scooters.  Here in Rochdale the council has been very pleased to announce that some firm is coming to our town to set up an electric scooter hire scheme which the council thinks will "revolutionise" commuting and bring the green economy here from Southend, where it currently lives.  This is the same council that removed the Sheffield stands and created motor-bike parking instead and permitted the intro duction of a Metro system on which you can't take a bike.  It'll certainly revolutionise commuting but in the way the Panzer tank revolutionised the golf-buggy.  The councillor "responsible" says that the scooters will be limited to 15 mph.  Has he any idea how lethal a silent 15mph will be in a bike lane - or on a pavement?  I've green-inked the department but I don't hold out much hope of being taken seriously as I'm "known" to the authorities round here.  I'm with the relevantly but unfortunately named SOTR on this!

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 07:36:09 pm »
That sounds good, Kim but I don't think it can survive the electric scooters.  Here in Rochdale the council has been very pleased to announce that some firm is coming to our town to set up an electric scooter hire scheme which the council thinks will "revolutionise" commuting and bring the green economy here from Southend, where it currently lives.

Probably Voi?  There's a thread about them here: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=116116.0

We've had them in Brum since some point last year, and there's been a surge in popularity since they expanded the operating zone to areas where people actually live.  As a general rule, the main hazard posed by the hire scooters is when they're left cluttering the pavement between uses (which is a real problem), with the majority of scooter chaos being perpetrated on unlicensed privately-owned ones.  Surprisingly few have ended up in the canal (or they've worked out how to waterproof them).
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 07:45:02 pm »
Has he any idea how lethal a silent 15mph will be in a bike lane - or on a pavement?

About the same as a bicycle ridden at a very achievable 15 mph?

The main problem with non-car forms of transport is that we give over almost all of our urban space to empty seaters and forced everyone else to contest the same small areas. Our rules of the road are designed for motorists to be able to get where they're going at the maximum speed while paying as little attention to their surroundings as possible.

Drive your car in a busy urban area like it doesn't belong there, like you've accidentally driven a tank into a school playground, and you'll be fine.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 08:17:05 pm »
Yeah, cycling amongst scooters is almost but not quite entirely like cycling amongst cyclists.  The only substantive difference is that scooters tend not to be faster than me, and that you can't infer the power output (or absence thereof) of a distant scooter rider from leg movement.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 08:25:20 pm »
They will cut up your inside to gain seconds and really look like they don't know the dangers of being sideswiped.
I spent a few years in the 90s as a motorcycle courier (and occasional van driver). I'd say there's some truth in this. It's a job where time really is money – paid per delivery and doing this delivery faster means you'll get the next one a bit sooner. As for the danger of being sideswiped, the time pressure (or perception of pressure) pushes you to take small risks. You get away with them so you take more.

However, I think there's something extra with the current wave of delivery scooters. Back then, there was no one doing it who didn't have a full licence and a few years' experience in the relevant vehicle. Almost all the Deliveroo etc riders are on L plates. Some of them might be using a car licence as a provisional moped licence but many of them probably have only CBT (compulsory basic training, riding around cones and stuff). They actually don't know the rules of the road and more importantly don't have the experience of the rules people actually follow. (What puzzles me is why so many of them ride with one foot stuck out to the side.)

But also, it's the visibility problem. Scooters (all types) get noticed, so we remember their bad behaviour. And most people aren't expecting their normal behaviour, because most people aren't used to the way a two-wheeler (however powered) moves, so they are liable to misinterpret that.
Faster than a walk, slower than a train, often slightly higher than a person. (David Byrne)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 08:27:02 pm »
Lots of e-scooters here and I haven't encountered or seen any problems with them. Except when parked in inconsiderate places (many of which are the official deposit points... )
Faster than a walk, slower than a train, often slightly higher than a person. (David Byrne)

Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 09:48:12 pm »
I sincerely hope people are right about the lack of problem with e-scooters.  However, we try to make cycling inclusive, no?  I have been a cyclist a long time and still am.  To say that 15mph is easily achievable on a bike is a bit glib.  I don't know how old you are, grams.  I can still easily achieve 15mph on a bike, but the people we want to encourage to start cycling generally won't be - and generally I don't because I use the cycle lanes for transport, not training, and I'm 75 (there, I've said it).  and Rochdale is hilly.  Oh, by the way, silent cyclists are a bloody menace, too!

Kim, I'm glad if the scheme seems to work to some extent in Mordor.  I think the proliferation of unlicensed ones is inevitable and that they'll probably be a real problem on dedicated cycle lanes because they'll spook the dogs which are the rightful occupants of the space.

I'll have a look and see if Voi is our huckleberry, but it doesn't ring a bell............!

Peter

Edit:  I ought to say that I'm in favour of the principle of reducing car journeys.  But when dealing with council commercial and planning decisions it is always a sound approach to look for problems - especially where concessions and quid pro quos are involved.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 09:51:27 pm »
To say that 15mph is easily achievable on a bike is a bit glib.  I don't know how old you are, grams.  I can still easily achieve 15mph on a bike, but the people we want to encourage to start cycling generally won't be - and generally I don't because I use the cycle lanes for transport, not training, and I'm 75 (there, I've said it).  and Rochdale is hilly.

Hilly is what means that most people can easily achieve 15mph on a bike.  In the right direction.

It's flat that keeps the cycling speeds low.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 10:06:43 pm »
Certainly true.  But not bikes/scooters with motors - which is what would cause the problem, because, on average you're always going to be in front of one that is wanting to get past at some stage.  If you could rely on them to use a bell or voice to let you know, fine, but I won't be holding my breath, partly because I have COPD (apparently) but mostly because real cyclists can be very bad in this respect, too.

I admit it - my arthritis is playing up, typing hurts and I'm seeing the dark side - and not in a lying-down stylee!

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Delivery mopeds and electric scooters in London
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 10:20:58 pm »
Gotta say one of the reasons the e-scooters aren't a problem in cycle lanes here in Bristol is because of the lack of cycle lanes. Which is itself just a symptom of the general lack of non-car space. I rode through a tennis match today. No, not mid-serve. Family tennis game on one of the feeder paths into the cycle path (converted railway). Why were they playing there? Because there's nowhere else that's suitable and near enough.
Faster than a walk, slower than a train, often slightly higher than a person. (David Byrne)