Author Topic: Gatecrashing a TT  (Read 2908 times)

Gatecrashing a TT
« on: May 19, 2009, 03:50:53 pm »
I've only thought of the following precautions

-- Pop the Carradice on the back of the bike to look like a tourist  :)
-- Don't use the clip on aeros
-- Not wear any items of discernable clothing relating to any club / organisation
-- Set off 10 minutes before the first rider with a rolling start
-- Not hang around or let on to any riders you know.

not that I'm considering such a terrible deed, I hope you understand........ :-[


Any other tips, experiences, yarns, parables or anicdotes on the topic would be gratefully received. Thanks




PaulF

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Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2009, 03:55:10 pm »
Personally I'd wera a jersey belonging to a club/organisation that I didn't like :demon:

and try not to overtake the competitors, they may be upset if you do without aeros and with a Carradice :)

Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2009, 04:03:55 pm »
Messing about among riders who are on the limit is probably not a good idea. Especially if the tt is on busy roads, as they often are.

Charlotte

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Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2009, 04:07:25 pm »
Any other tips, experiences, yarns, parables or anicdotes on the topic would be gratefully received. Thanks

Might I ask why?
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clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2009, 04:07:32 pm »
Why would you?  Am I missing something?

Although I would check that there weren't any tea shops en route, as that would spoil my time sommewhat ;D
Getting there...

Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2009, 04:15:50 pm »
Might I ask why?


Erm, just want to be courtious to other riders who may happen to be riding a competative event on the same route as me on the same day, as well as staying below the radar of the orgs of said event.

Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 04:31:51 pm »
Erm, just want to be courtious to other riders who may happen to be riding a competative event on the same route as me on the same day, as well as staying below the radar of the orgs of said event.
As an old school cyclist I was brought up that if you find yourself on the course of a time trial then you turn off at the first possible place - to get out of the way.  Also - never pass a rider who is competing - that is just plain bad manners unless the rider is in the last hour of a 24 hour TT and is staggering around.

If you want to ride a time trial, and get a real timekeeper's time, then ride a local evening event and pay your pound or whatever the entry fee is.  If you want to ride the course and time yoursef, then do it on a different day.

Basil

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Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2009, 04:42:42 pm »
As an old school cyclist I was brought up that if you find yourself on the course of a time trial then you turn off at the first possible place - to get out of the way. 

On finding myself on the same route as a TT early one Sunday morning near Bristol, I considered doing this (turning off) for a second and a half.  I decided not to.  My four pannier + tent roll made it pretty obvious that I was nothing to do with them and the road was quiet and wide.  I just kept a weather eye open over my shoulder to check that each rider had clear road and to confirm to them that I knew they were coming.
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Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2009, 04:51:16 pm »
If you want to ride a time trial, and get a real timekeeper's time, then ride a local evening event and pay your pound or whatever the entry fee is.  If you want to ride the course and time yourself, then do it on a different day.

Yes I'm most aware that this is "very bad form" and i agree totally with your advice above

The circumstances are that I intended to ride this 100 mile event, but missed the cut-off date for entry by a day or so. The course is on roads I'd very much like to ride on before another event later in the year. Being able to do it on a day whereby there will be a good number of cyclists on these busy roads is an opportunity i will not get again before the event, and I wouldn't hazard to ride it at another time on my own. Despite this being very bad form culturaly in the world of cycling, the anti-autoritarian side of me says that essentially I am doing nothing wrong and that if I am keeping a similar pace with the large number of riders, then one rider more on the open roads isn't going to make a bit of difference to the event.

Thanks for peoples reactions to this.

Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2009, 04:51:43 pm »

Erm, just want to be courtious to other riders who may happen to be riding a competative event on the same route as me on the same day, as well as staying below the radar of the orgs of said event.

I'm sorry, but I just don't get this.  I recall some time ago a TT rider having a shout on a forum re rude and inconsiderate cyclists on the TT course, and didn't understand it then either.


The roads are public open space and we can all use them.  Does the TT rider expect cars to get out of their way?  

Me poodling along on a ride isn't going to hold up a TT rider in any way shape or form.  I ride pretty fast when commuting and often catch and pass other cyclists.  That's in congested rush hour traffic and I'm never held up or delayed by having to pass.   I can't imaging any TT being held in those traffic conditions, so the TT rider overtaking the other cyclist really won't be an issue.

Edit as this was a cross posting.

Now I've seen the reason for your ride, I have even less issue.  You're not going to be holding up the riders if setting off ahead and holding a similar pace.  The only thing I would suggest is that if you get somebody on your wheel you slacken off to let them past really easily.

There have been many times when I've seen organised rides, and ghosted bits of it just for the fun of riding with others.

vorsprung

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Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2009, 05:05:35 pm »
If you want to ride a time trial, and get a real timekeeper's time, then ride a local evening event and pay your pound or whatever the entry fee is.  If you want to ride the course and time yourself, then do it on a different day.

The circumstances are that I intended to ride this 100 mile event, but missed the cut-off date for entry by a day or so. The course is on roads I'd very much like to ride on before another event later in the year. Being able to do it on a day whereby there will be a good number of cyclists on these busy roads is an opportunity i will not get again before...

Tough luck you missed the cut off date.

But to ride "as if" you are a competitor, to take advantage of the safety precautions, to deliberately ride the same route at the same time even though you aren't an entrant seems likely to cause nuisance. 

Perhaps you could get permission from the organiser despite being late to enter?
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iakobski

Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2009, 05:08:50 pm »
As an old school cyclist I was brought up that if you find yourself on the course of a time trial then you turn off at the first possible place - to get out of the way.  Also - never pass a rider who is competing - that is just plain bad manners unless the rider is in the last hour of a 24 hour TT and is staggering around.

Eh? So if I'm commuting home and happen to be at the same time as the local 10 or whatever, I'm supposed to change my route and go the long way home? Even though I've never TTd so wouldn't know these weird rules.

And if there happens to be someone slower than me but they're a competitor, I'd be extremely rude if I just passed them and went on my way? If you want the road to yourself, apply to get them closed for the event, or use a velodrome. If I'm using a public road I'll observe the standard rules of the road, plus the courtesy of not getting in anyone's way unnecessarily, just like I normally do, but I'm buggered if I'm going to change my route or avoid overtaking just because some other cyclists want to use the same road as me!

EDIT: and what nutty said.

Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2009, 05:12:07 pm »
...
And if there happens to be someone slower than me but they're a competitor, I'd be extremely rude if I just passed them and went on my way? ...

If I remember, that was roughly the reason for the rant I referred to.  A tired TT rider was overtaken and had a real shouty fit at the rude and inconsiderate cyclist.  ::-)

Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2009, 05:16:16 pm »


Perhaps you could get permission from the organiser despite being late to enter?

Sometimes, if you ask nicely, the timekeeper will time you starting a couple of minutes after the field - a 'private' TT.

David Martin

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Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2009, 10:35:03 pm »


Perhaps you could get permission from the organiser despite being late to enter?

Sometimes, if you ask nicely, the timekeeper will time you starting a couple of minutes after the field - a 'private' TT.

Did you actually try talking to the organiser? There are three options.
1. There is space and he lets you enter late.
2. There isn't space so tough.
3. He is an arse and tells you to go away even though the event is not full.

Local policy is that rules are there to serve the riders, not vice versa. The 10 I rode tonight had a closing date early last week. de facto closing date was before sign on finishes. Typical rule - local event, we know who you are, don't take the p***.

Friendly, casual where appropriate, to standard where appropriate (insurance, timekeeping, signage etc.)
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Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2009, 09:57:06 am »
Yes rang the organiser a week ago and he said there was no chance of getting a ride. It's an open event.

I chatted yesterday to a rider who is riding the TT in question and his opinion was that there was no issue in riding round the course. With 80 or so riders one rider more on the road should make little difference.

I agree with nutty's assessment of the physical issues of me being on the road (i.e. I'm probably of no concern, and if I am a small incovenience, then it'll be no more than should be expected on open roads). The social issues however, it's akin to declining to go on a mates birthday night out and then knowingly attending the same club on the same night with some other people.


mattc

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Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2009, 10:13:49 am »
Quote
Eh? So if I'm commuting home and happen to be at the same time as the local 10 or whatever, I'm supposed to change my route and go the long way home? Even though I've never TTd so wouldn't know these weird rules.

No, of course you shouldn't get off the road if you find yourself 'obstructing' a TT.

But if you _deliberately_ choose to ride the course, when you _know_ there is an event on, I think it would be polite to inconvenience them as little as possible.

2 very different situations.
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iakobski

Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2009, 10:18:45 am »
Quote
Eh? So if I'm commuting home and happen to be at the same time as the local 10 or whatever, I'm supposed to change my route and go the long way home? Even though I've never TTd so wouldn't know these weird rules.

No, of course you shouldn't get off the road if you find yourself 'obstructing' a TT.

But if you _deliberately_ choose to ride the course, when you _know_ there is an event on, I think it would be polite to inconvenience them as little as possible.

2 very different situations.

I was replying to this:
Quote from: tatanab
if you find yourself on the course of a time trial then you turn off at the first possible place

mattc

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Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2009, 10:55:14 am »
...
I was replying to this:
Quote from: tatanab
if you find yourself on the course of a time trial then you turn off at the first possible place

Yes, I know! And I think I agree with your comment :)

If 'proper' roadies want to adhere to the rule from tatanab above, that's fine, it shows courtesy beyond the minimum required. That doesn't mean Joe-average-cyclist should conform to this unwritten rule.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2009, 11:01:42 am »
tbh, I very rarely find myself riding on the sort of roads (flat; straight; dualled; boring; dangerous) that TTers use.  So I've never found it a problem.
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Charlotte

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Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2009, 01:13:15 pm »
As an old school cyclist I was brought up that if you find yourself on the course of a time trial then you turn off at the first possible place - to get out of the way.  Also - never pass a rider who is competing - that is just plain bad manners unless the rider is in the last hour of a 24 hour TT and is staggering around.

There are many who would disagree with this.

I am not one of them.
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Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2009, 07:39:38 pm »
I've done it with a triathlon. I was on a road-going MTB, with panniers on the back, back in thedays that I was quite fit.  Saw a cyclist up ahead on a TTish bike who was going slower than me (no doubt tired after the swim he'd donebefore) so I just over took, wishing him a "good morning" as I did so, only noticing that he had a number attached to him as I got level.  I don't see the harm in this - it's a pubic road, there were cars over taking, etc. If it had been a closed road for the event then fair enough - I'd have kept well out the way.

The weird thing was though, when I got to the next junction, attempting to turn left to continue my route, a marshal jumped out, started shouting and got upset because I was going off the course! 

So, I'd agree with Nutty's original comments - public road, I've as much right to be there as they have, and if they get upset by someone who legally and safely overtakes them then perhaps they oughta find themselves a different sport.  As it is, the guy that I overtook didn't seem to mind at all.

I've also been on the same road as a road race - resisted the lure of jumping onto theback of the bunch as that would have had the potential to cause problems for the racers.  So I just carried on at my own speed as they went past andleft them to it.

Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2009, 02:05:47 am »
Just as an addition to my earlier comments.

Some years ago I noticed that the Blue Peter Bikeathon was in Southend and would be using the NCN16.  I thought it would be a good protest against farcilities for me to go down there on the Windcheetah (it's physically half the width of that path, so would cause some hazard to oncoming riders).   I took Mrs Nutty that way for a bike ride.



When we got there we found that Southend Council had closed the road to enable the riders to use the cycle track one way and the road the other (thus proving the cycle track was not fit for purpose  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D)


As soon as I saw it was a closed road event I didn't enter it.  I followed the signed diversion route to avoid it.   Had it been an open road event I'd have continued my planned ride.




With regards the original post here, I can understand it really is coming close to the line...   but if the rider is certain to NOT use any of the TT facilities (timekeepers, refreshments, marshalls, etc) and simply rides the same route whilst not obstructing any official rider, then yes, I still believe it is just on the acceptable side of that line.

I would also agree that it would be best to set out first, as that way drivers will be passing all the other riders first and so be used to pulling out to overtake cyclists  ;)

keeks

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Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2009, 02:33:23 pm »
I found myself in a TT last week while commuting home. I went past what looked like the control for the start and finish. They weren't concerned at all. Having read this though I will keep and eye open for any more of these events and ensure that I am not an obstruction to passing riders.

Re: Gatecrashing a TT
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2009, 02:37:58 pm »
a 'normal' guy on a road bike turned onto the road I was TTing on a couple of weeks back, about 200 yards in front of me.  It took me about 5 minutes to catch the bastard (at which point he congratulated me and slowed right down).  I hated him more than just about anything I can remember for those five minutes, but at least it gave me something to aim at.