Author Topic: Permanant questions  (Read 4088 times)

Permanant questions
« on: May 26, 2009, 02:40:46 pm »
Two questions, undoubtedly asked before, about permanants.

Can you start a Permanant anywhere on the route (with proof of course)?

Can you do a Permanant in reverse?

Answers will help make the use of Permanants easier/more enjoyable.

Thanks

Re: Permanant questions
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2009, 02:47:14 pm »
Ask the organiser for the  particular permanent. Don Black lets one start anywhere and for the Manc Loop has a routecheat in both directions.

Re: Permanant questions
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2009, 02:49:55 pm »
Depends on the organiser, you just have to ask them.

If the brevet cards are pre-printed it makes things tricky but not impossible.

Also, the route/controls are chosen so that there should be something open if started at a usual time (i.e. 6am for a 300km ride). Doing it in reverse or out of order you may find there isn't a lot open to get proof-of-passage at certain controls. The organiser should be able to advise of this.

There may also be restrictions on AAA rated rides, especially if it is one sub-section that provides the AAA points (you shouldn't be able to start in the middle of this section to make it "easier"). Theoretically the same section may not qualify for AAA points if ridden in reverse but it's very very unlikely.

Final decision lies with the organiser though.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Permanant questions
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2009, 03:03:40 pm »
There may also be restrictions on AAA rated rides, especially if it is one sub-section that provides the AAA points (you shouldn't be able to start in the middle of this section to make it "easier").
Are you sure? Isn't this the same as using a "Larrington" to avoid some climbing, but adding miles, on any other event?

OH ... hang on, I see!  You mean starting at a control in the middle of the AAA section.
(Mind you, I wouldn't want to leave half the AAA bit until the end!)

As you were ...
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Martin

Re: Permanant questions
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2009, 03:15:10 pm »
OH ... hang on, I see!  You mean starting at a control in the middle of the AAA section.
(Mind you, I wouldn't want to leave half the AAA bit until the end!)

depends entirely on how the AAA's are worked out; if it's based on the total climb over total distance it should be ok.

I believe all perms validated by John Ward inc El Supremo's allow this facility; I've even been allowed to start at an extra intermediate control providing I visit all the others in the time frame.

Re: Permanant questions
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2009, 03:18:32 pm »
I started Round The West Riding at a control immediately prior to the 100km hilly section whereas the routecheat and the calendar event had 50km hilly start and end. Still the same AAA points awards.

Re: Permanant questions
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2009, 03:25:44 pm »
I started Round The West Riding at a control immediately prior to the 100km hilly section whereas the routecheat and the calendar event had 50km hilly start and end. Still the same AAA points awards.

That's fine as you're not changing the route as far as AAA points are calculated.

I was thinking of something like the Cheddar Gorge 300 which qualifies for AAA points only because of a hilly 100km section in the middle. If you changed the route around to start at Cheddar, doing 50km of the hilly bit, then 200km of the rest of the route, then the final 50km of hills then it would no longer qualify for AAA points. Common sense reigns supreme though, and it's possible to do this (so says the notes accompanying the ride, along with riding it in either direction) and still get the AAA points.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Permanant questions
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2009, 03:33:55 pm »
A topic for discussion another time, may have already been done to death, but I'd vote for scrapping the 'AAAs for hilly sections' in favour of AAA for all climbing on the route. So if a 600km ride needs 6000m to qualify (it's something like that), then ones with less than 6000m no matter if they have a 4000m 200km section ( and less than 2000m rest) will fail to qualify for any AAA points. But as I said, here and  now is not the place to discuss this.

Re: Permanant questions
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2009, 04:04:54 pm »
Thanks for answers.  I'm not bothered about AAA points but having done 75% of a RRTY I may need another Perm soon.  Taste of the Test and Anoraks Delight are both on the doorstep so riding in reverse would be different.  There are also a couple that come up from Southampton/Denmead to my neck of the woods that would be good to start/finish locally rather than driving 40 mile each way.  (And I know I could probably engineer a DIY 300 from it but not yet!)

Martin

Re: Permanant questions
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2009, 04:08:24 pm »
A topic for discussion another time, may have already been done to death, but I'd vote for scrapping the 'AAAs for hilly sections' in favour of AAA for all climbing on the route.

it wasn't really done to death last time; and now that the new AAA points system has settled in nicely with no noticeable effect on the shorter events maybe it's time to re-open it? (with the caveat that changing it may involve an awful lot of extra work for not only the AAA organisers but also Steve the AAA man)

border-rider

Re: Permanant questions
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2009, 04:43:33 pm »
Two questions, undoubtedly asked before, about permanants.

Can you start a Permanant anywhere on the route (with proof of course)?

Can you do a Permanant in reverse?

Answers will help make the use of Permanants easier/more enjoyable.

Thanks

There's a sticky thread called "Audax FAQs" that has links to where this sort of question has been asked on here.  This thread raises an interesting question re AAA so I'll include it in the FAQs :)