Mille Cymru - Welsh 1000 - 23-26/07/2010

[JohnHamilton]

Am I right in thinking that we must finish by 9am on the last day to be inside the BRM time limit?

Yes I think that a 1000 must be done in 75hours. Effectively, one need to kip until 2am and then finish, that will be a bit tricky!

Correct. BRM time limit is 75 hours. So finish by 9am Monday morning. AUK time limit is an extra hour and a bit (for the 15k over-distance).

So Day 3 is effectively 347km with 5400m climbing. Kind of.

That's right. Having slept on my new climbing figures overnight I'd agree that sounds a bit brutal. I've got a couple of options for a flatter return leg (although one adds on another 10k) to take a look at.

[mattc]

It's funny - I finally get round to entering the Marmotte and it becomes a training ride.

I'm not a fast rider (my baseline time for a hilly 300 is 16-17hrs).

It's probably best I don't comment on this ...

Follow my training progress on

blog.whatthefeckhaveIentered.com

[simonp]

I got inside 17h on the elenith despite 3h20 stopped. I feel better about the MC and MM now.

But the devil's staircase took a lot out of my legs. My average power output on the next section was down by 20-30W.

[Justin(e)]

Nice pictures. It's been interesting watching the fear build.

Yes & Yes

Day 3: 230km, 3700m (16.3m/km). This is going to be a tough third day no doubt about it.

YES! (cf 2nd yes)

[iakobski]

Umm, this is a really good point. I'd not been thinking about schedules until now,  just been concentrating on getting the miles in. I now might actually have to plan some 'real speed work' over the next 10-12 weeks as well, and see if I can couple that with shifting a few ponds. This event has now become a whole different kettle of fish. Bugger! Some new wheels would help as well (note to wife  )

given that you finished the Elenith in < 14 hours, I don't think you have too much to be worried about

That may well be, but there is NO WAY I could go out and do that again today!

This, I think, is going to be the issue. The longer distance on the first day is going to give a lot of pressure to go fast and get to the control in good time.

But the devil's staircase took a lot out of my legs. My average power output on the next section was down by 20-30W.

It's going to be a fine balance between getting to the control in good time and getting to the control in good fettle. Having sore legs on day 2 is my biggest worry.

[Paul D]

Having sore legs on day 2 is my biggest worry.

Then you're in trouble. Who's starting day 2 with fresh legs?!

Having sore legs that are still capable of propelling me up whatever's in front of me sounds more likely.

[MattH]

Indeed. Sore legs on day 2, day 3 will be when it is tough to swing a leg over the bike.
It is odd how the body adapts though - I find I end up having trouble walking (especially down stairs) but once I've clambered back on the bike I can pedal OK.

[Weirdy Biker]

Indeed. Sore legs on day 2, day 3 will be when it is tough to swing a leg over the bike.
It is odd how the body adapts though - I find I end up having trouble walking (especially down stairs) but once I've clambered back on the bike I can pedal OK.

My preparations are going to include some rides where I ride a hilly event, sleep overnight and then ride another the next day.  Snow Roads/Wildcat and CS2H/CS2E.  Indeed, the week of the Snow Roads will see me rest for 3 days after the Wildcat, then do the Saltire 200, rest for a day and then do the Bowland 200.  That this is a "holiday" seems rather an abuse of the term 

Better to learn from experience before the MC1K than to find out for the first time on the day.

[simonp]

Indeed. Sore legs on day 2, day 3 will be when it is tough to swing a leg over the bike.
It is odd how the body adapts though - I find I end up having trouble walking (especially down stairs) but once I've clambered back on the bike I can pedal OK.

My preparations are going to include some rides where I ride a hilly event, sleep overnight and then ride another the next day.  Snow Roads/Wildcat and CS2H/CS2E.  Indeed, the week of the Snow Roads will see me rest for 3 days after the Wildcat, then do the Saltire 200, rest for a day and then do the Bowland 200.  That this is a "holiday" seems rather an abuse of the term 

Better to learn from experience before the MC1K than to find out for the first time on the day.

I spoke to Richard Parrotte about his training for the Maniac 1000k a few years ago.  This ^^^ is what he did.  Hilly 300s back to back.

I decided on the basis of what he said, not to attempt the Maniac 1000, but the Mille Cymru is only about 4000m less climbing.

I'm not sure I can face back to back hilly 300s, tbh.

[vorsprung]

I just played with some times and speeds with the new distances

Still looks possible

With realistic numbers I am looking at 3+2.5+1.5 hours sleep on the 3 nights and finishing with an hour and a half in hand

So as long as I don't get properly lost or have a bad mechanical and the weather is good, should be ok

I agree with Johns assessment that the worst bit will be the last.   It finishes at 9am, the final leg is 117km.   So if you leave the sleep stop with 30 minutes in hand and are doing the last bit at under 20kph (which I will be if I get that far) that means leaving at approx 1:30am

[vorsprung]

Having sore legs on day 2 is my biggest worry.

Then you're in trouble. Who's starting day 2 with fresh legs?!

I am putting my spare legs in the bag drop

[mattc]

Correct. BRM time limit is 75 hours. So finish by 9am Monday morning. AUK time limit is an extra hour and a bit (for the 15k over-distance).

Is this right John? I think it's only 7k over => 42mins
Using 13.3kph:

Start   0            Fri 6:00 AM
LW   350      350      Sat 8:18 AM
LW   660      310      Sun 7:37 AM
LW   890      230      Mon 12:55 AM
Finish   1007      117      Mon 9:42 AM
N.B. see John's reply above - these are a few K out, but not much.

(If these are right I'll stick with the plan:
Day 1: blast round to get back before dawn:
day 2&3: grovel round, hope to get more than an hour's sleep
day 4: suffer )

[Greenbank]

My legs felt just as sore waking up on day 2 of LEL as they/I did waking up on day 5 of LEL, but that was off the bike. I didn't really notice any difference when getting on the bike and pedaling.

I know none of LEL was AAA rated, but some bits weren't far off, and I didn't have the benefit of multiple gears and a freewheel to take the edge off some of them.

[JohnHamilton]

Is this right John? I think it's only 7k over => 42mins

There's a few missing k's - those figures are rounded

Start   0            Fri 6:00 AM
LW   353      353      Sat 8:32 AM
LW   666      313      Sun 8:04 AM
LW   898      232      Mon 1:31 AM
Finish   1015      117      Mon 10:18 AM (AUK) / 09:00 (BRM)

[Panoramix]

In short, a sensible strategy seem to be to wake up every morning @ 6am and then ride through the last night. Unless it is pissing down I can't see the point of sleeping til 1am and then riding through the worst part of the night better kip between 3 and 5 am somewhere en route.

[border-rider]

Or if you can go fast enough to do this and get enough sleep: start day 2 at 5 am and day 3 at 4 am (just at/before dawn)  -  and ride day 3 as 349k.

[marcus]

I'm reading this thread with interest although I won't be riding the Mille Cymru (too disorganised to plan that far ahead!).

I rode the Maniac Grimpeur a couple of years ago (ride report here: Maniac Grimpeur, July 2008) & perhaps some of the experience I gained from that may help people prepare for the MC.

I agree with FY that riding hilly 200/300s back to back is really good preparation. It's not just the physical training - it's also the confidence it gives you knowing that you can ride a tough 300, grab a few hours sleep & then tackle another tough ride the following day. A long ride like the MC can seem really daunting unless you break it down into chunks that you know you are capable of doing.

I rode the Maniac in 3 sections: 300 (sleep), 300 (sleep), 400. So I was only riding through the night on the 3rd night. This worked well for me. It looks like the MC can be ridden in a similar fashion.

You certainly don't need to be a fast rider to complete a ride like this successfully (I'm not!). I guess it partly depends on how much sleep you want but I found I managed the Maniac with 3-4 hours a night. Much better, in my opinion, to go at something like this slowly & steadily.

Another piece of advice would be not to plan the ride too tightly. I found it helpful to set a rough timetable for each day on the Maniac, but the one thing you can be certain of on a long ride is that something will go wrong sometime & disrupt your plans. On the Maniac it was breaking my front light on the first day & not being able to get a decent replacement. These things happen - you just have to be a bit flexible. Unless it's really serious it doesn't have to mean the end of your ride.

The really, really important thing is to remember that you're doing this knid of thing because you enjoy it (hopefully). For me (& I suspect many other Audax rider) part of the enjoyment comes from the physical & mental challenge but you shouldn't let the challenge overwhelm the enjoyment. Wales is a wonderful place to be on a bike, the scenery is fantastic, so enjoy it!

I hope some of this is helpful to people.

[Hummers]

There is much comfort in your words, Marcus.

H

P.s.
You wouldn't like to be a dear and tell me you are also a fat middle aged man too,  would you?

[marcus]

There is much comfort in your words, Marcus.

H

P.s.
You wouldn't like to be a dear and tell me you are also a fat middle aged man too,  would you?

Would one out of the two do? I can't deny my age but I like to think I've kept my youthful trim figure.

Anyway, I wouldn't describe you as fat - just 'big-boned'.

[Hummers]

Would one out of the two do? I can't deny my age but I like to think I've kept my youthful trim figure.

"....and in that brief moment, Hummers felt the last tyre lever of hope ping from the rim of ambition, lost forever amongst the roadside stinging nettles and bracken of dark yet silent despair..."

[Basil]

"....and in that brief moment, Hummers felt the last tyre lever of hope ping from the rim of ambition, lost forever amongst the roadside stinging nettles and bracken of dark yet silent despair..."

That's awesome, Hummers old chap.

[arabella]

I look at this thread and wonder if I'm taking my attempt to do the Gt Eastern seriously enough (note: nice'n'flat). 
At the moment I'm considering riding through each night and napping on the verge once the day warms up again.  This is probably a silly idea 3 nights on the trot.

[Tewdric]

Would one out of the two do? I can't deny my age but I like to think I've kept my youthful trim figure.

"....and in that brief moment, Hummers felt the last tyre lever of hope ping from the rim of ambition, lost forever amongst the roadside stinging nettles and bracken of dark yet silent despair..."

POTD

[vorsprung]

Or if you can go fast enough to do this and get enough sleep: start day 2 at 5 am and day 3 at 4 am (just at/before dawn)  -  and ride day 3 as 349k.

Yes, if you were fast and this didn't fall off as the event progressed

Leaving the sleep control for the last time at 1am or so seems more likely for me however.  Or arriving at it at 1am

[Weirdy Biker]

I've never had a timed plan for an audax, believing in my inate sense of what pace I need to keep in order to avoid time trouble.  You kind of *know* don't you, based on how close you are to the wire at the intermediate controls and the comments of riders on how "tough" the next stage is going to be.

Strangely, I am now relatively chilled about this event having been anxious earlier in the week.

Doing a decent time on the Elenith helped (16.5 hours or so) despite not being hill fit (I chose to push up a couple of stretches rather than straining myself) and riding the last 30km without my full range of gears.  More importantly, I ended the event feeling relatively fresh and could imagine doing a similar route when I woke up at 5am on Sunday (thanks to the snores of fellow randonneurs - invaluable preparation!).  Albeit, for now, it would be challenging.

I guess what I'm saying is that as an average rider, a good way of becoming less anxious is to ride events that allow you to benchmark.  The Elenith gave me a fillup that, based on previous experience, following a careful plan that gets me climbing with less grind (can't quite shift habits from riding fixed) I can expect to be in a good place come 3 months time.

I just have to keep positive on those days where things don't go to plan and avoid getting jaded (my schedule has only 3 proper rest weeks between now and the MC1K).  The latter has already change plans for some events (hence why have dropped the Severn Across and Denmead 600).