Author Topic: We know Wiggins is clean because...  (Read 7710 times)

gonzo

We know Wiggins is clean because...
« on: July 21, 2009, 10:07:56 pm »
People will be coming up to us, as 'the cyclist' for weeks to come and saying; "that Wiggins, what's he on then?"

Can we provide a concise list of reasons why Wiggo is clean?

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2009, 10:10:02 pm »
I anticipate being able to count people coming up to me to ask this question on the fingers of 0 hands.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2009, 10:11:50 pm »
"A natural high, man, he's on a natural high."

or

"Alli! Why don't you try it?"   :demon:
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 10:14:00 pm »
The drugs in cycling thing is unlikely to come up unless I mention cycling.

Really Ancien

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 10:32:18 pm »
Because it is one of the things that motivates him, and it's making news across the world, here's a Pennsyslvania paper, Wiggins: Drug-free riders can win race notebook | Sports | timesleader.com - The Times Leader
Bradley's always been keen on a drink, and he's given that up. He looks like he might be a bit of a pothead, but he'll have given that up, if that was ever his thing. His team voluntarily undergoes 20 times more tests than are stipulated.

Damon.

ChrisO

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2009, 10:33:34 pm »
The Garmin team seems to be generally regarded as one of the ultra-clean squads, even by journalists etc who are plugged in to the various rumours about other riders and teams.

I believe they voluntarily set up their own biological testing programme from the beginning - similar to what now operates as the biological passport.

Apart from that it isn't like Wiggins has suddenly turned from no-hoper domestique to champion overnight. He is a triple Olympic gold medallist after all.

Edit: Should add that I don't regard the testing as proof in itself. The number of known dopers who never tested positive is rather alarming. However the fact that the team set up the testing programme and their general attitude against doping is the more important factor.

I suspect some teams do what they have to do and no more, and are still probably quite happy to turn a blind eye, operating on the principle that getting caught doping is the worst offence.

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2009, 10:55:22 pm »
If anyone asks me, I shall produce a blister strip of placebo and reply, "Summa deez man, joo wanna buy for twenny quid a go?"

I feel n+1 coming on.
Soon I shall be armed with new titanium cycling weaponry. 8)

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2009, 11:14:30 pm »
Unfortunately we don't know Wiggins is clean.

Many of us believe strongly that he is, but we don't have access to real data.

It's a faith thing  ;D
"What a long, strange trip it's been", Truckin'

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2009, 11:41:06 pm »
The other thing that we know is that the UK track squad is well run and tested a lot.  And that there's no money in track cycling, so the liklihood of it being worth paying for the "sports doctors" and "medicine" necessary to dope properly is slim.

That said, ultimately, it is faith.  I have more faith in UK track and Garmin than I do in the rest of the tour teams...

LEE

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2009, 11:53:11 pm »
Unfortunately we don't know Wiggins is clean.

Many of us believe strongly that he is, but we don't have access to real data.

It's a faith thing  ;D

All I can be sure of is that I want him to be clean.

Until someone proves otherwise and I mean PROVES, rather than some French journalist's bitter allegations, then he's clean in my eyes.

I would say that his extraordinary improvment in performance is so great that he's need to be stupid to take drugs and perform so well.  It's just too obvious.


andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2009, 09:09:27 am »
Which, alas, hasn't stopped plenty of others in other years. ::-)
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2009, 09:22:13 am »
Unfortunately we don't know Wiggins is clean.

Many of us believe strongly that he is, but we don't have access to real data.

It's a faith thing  ;D

All I can be sure of is that I want him to be clean.

Until someone proves otherwise and I mean PROVES, rather than some French journalist's bitter allegations, then he's clean in my eyes.

I would say that his extraordinary improvment in performance is so great that he's need to be stupid to take drugs and perform so well.  It's just too obvious.


The only proof we are going to get is a positive test. Alas for some here, the opposite is not acceptable, negative tests does not mean clean it seems. 

Seineseeker

  • Biting the cherry of existential delight
    • The Art of Pleisure
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2009, 10:14:07 am »
Who knows? It seems to me that cycling has been through the mill on the doping front. They've got the biological passports now, and there doesn't seem to be much else they can do. So just forget about it, move on, enjoy the drama, and wonder (ahem!) and how Contador can take 40 seconds out of the field in 5km!

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2009, 10:16:38 am »
Who knows? It seems to me that cycling has been through the mill on the doping front. They've got the biological passports now, and there doesn't seem to be much else they can do. So just forget about it, move on, enjoy the drama, and wonder (ahem!) and how Contador can take 40 seconds out of the field in 5km!
Yup.

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2009, 10:17:02 am »
The only proof we are going to get is a positive test. Alas for some here, the opposite is not acceptable, negative tests does not mean clean it seems.  
Very true. It also seems to depend for a lot of people (and the cycling press) on if they like the rider in question or not. Bradley Wiggins is clean because he's not failed a dope test but Lance must be doping even though he has never failed a test.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2009, 10:19:27 am »
It's what I was saying a few days ago

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2009, 10:21:47 am »

Hope that wasn't 'roid rage' when he was punching the team van.   ;D
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Have given this a great deal of thought and decided not to contribute to any further Threads for the time being.
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Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2009, 10:25:47 am »

He has been getting out of the saddle a lot lately though, hasn't he?
Quote from: Marbeaux
Have given this a great deal of thought and decided not to contribute to any further Threads for the time being.
POTD. (decade) :thumbsup:

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2009, 10:29:21 am »
If you read his biography you will see that his father, who was a track rider in the 60s was fucked up by the amphetamines that he took to perform during the 6 day events.  He is anti drug because he is aware of the harm that they do.  Most riders just see the positive side of doping.

Also as everyone else has said his team Garmin are not a hot bed of doping and are widely regarded as a clean team

Thirdly, my personal take on Pro cycling at the moment is that the dopers are not winning the battle of avoiding detection, so less riders are doping.  Therefore clean riders can keep up on mountain top finishes

We don't know for absolute certain that he isn't doping but it is highly unlikely
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Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2009, 10:31:13 am »

He has been getting out of the saddle a lot lately though, hasn't he?

Maybe it's the other way round, maybe Preparation H makes one a good climber. I thought it was a coincidence but my climbing has also improved this year...

Seineseeker

  • Biting the cherry of existential delight
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Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2009, 10:36:39 am »
To be honest what annoys me is people saying we know so and so is clean because..... (and usually it's because we like them for some reason).  We don't know if they are clean, we just know that some of them aren't when they fail a test.

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2009, 10:38:37 am »
To be honest what annoys me is people saying we know so and so is clean because..... (and usually it's because we like them for some reason).  We don't know if they are clean, we just know that some of them aren't when they fail a test.
Indeed. Innocent until proven guilty ?. Not here it seems.

Seineseeker

  • Biting the cherry of existential delight
    • The Art of Pleisure
Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2009, 10:40:48 am »
To be honest what annoys me is people saying we know so and so is clean because..... (and usually it's because we like them for some reason).  We don't know if they are clean, we just know that some of them aren't when they fail a test.
Indeed. Innocent until proven guilty ?. Not here it seems.

I'm afraid that's how it is. Doesn't really stop my enjoyment of the race though, at least these days I think some if not many riders are clean now.

ChrisO

Re: We know Wiggins is clean because...
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2009, 01:39:14 pm »
To be honest what annoys me is people saying we know so and so is clean because..... (and usually it's because we like them for some reason).  We don't know if they are clean, we just know that some of them aren't when they fail a test.
Indeed. Innocent until proven guilty ?. Not here it seems.

Why do you keep going on about "not here" . It isn't just here, it's through the whole of cycling in case you hadn't noticed.

There are plenty of cycling journalists and followers who are happy to help point fingers, and it has frequently been the case that the people and teams who have rumours about them are the ones who later get found out. It's perfectly legitimate to suggest that if you associate with people - directors, trainers, doctors etc - who are tainted by doping then it increases both the suspicion and the likelihood that you are also involved in it.

Among the people who never failed a dope test are:
Bjarne Riis
David Millar
Marco Pantani

Add to that the comments from Bernard Kohl about the way teams are using the biological passport to help avoid being caught.

Like you I'm also not particularly bothered about it - I just enjoy the racing and it is phenomenal, whether they are taking drugs or not. But to make out that people are being unneccessarily suspicious about riders who haven't failed tests is just ignoring established facts.