Author Topic: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)  (Read 1485222 times)

Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #21425 on: January 04, 2019, 10:12:24 pm »
Fucking stupid government! (No, this shouldn't be in POBI).

I just tried several times to log on to check my pension entitlement. For security purposes, the form required my passport details, including the expiry date in the format 31 MAR 2026 (clearly explained that this was the required format). After several unsuccessful attempts to log in, in desperation I tried the format 31 03 2026.

It worked.

Yes, it's hilarious. They sent me a thing about a change in tax code telling me to log in to find out why. Can't log in (it's been about three years so not surprised. Press here to get your user code (enter passport details) and it sends me a user code - a series of pairs of digits separated by spaces. Copy + paste this, it's accepted, press here to get your password (enter passport details again) and it sends me a password. Great. Log in ... "unrecognised user code or password". Repeat  (enter passport details again) ... doesn't work again. Repeat.

So, in Wowbagger-equivalent desperation I tried the user code without spaces and was in. So it sends the user code in a format that's accepted on one page but not another? In a format that can't be copy + pasted. With no indication of the required format. Barking.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #21426 on: January 05, 2019, 06:44:23 am »
Its not just this bloody government, I had similar issues with booking a flight from Riyadh to Dammam on Saudi air, you don't need a passport number, it said. Press the button to pay, passport number box goes red, put passport number in, unrecognised.

By this point my flight from Paris to Riyadh i s boarding. Panicked call to colleague already there who somehow manages it for me.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #21427 on: January 05, 2019, 09:51:26 am »
OK we can blame HMG for pushing everything on-line - which I think is a huge fucking mistake, but that's another argument entirely - but the issues described are straight-forward programming errors that should never, _ever_ have got past even the most cursory testing.  You want to blame something / someone?  Blame the half-arsed procurement processes and technically incompetent "managers" used by the Civil Service and the other non-elected branches of the state as well as the IT industry's obsession with employing young (i.e. dirt cheap) programmers who wouldn't know a unit, integration or any other kind of test if it hit them between the eyes with a month old haddock.  Rule 0 of software;  You want good?  You pay for it.   Sorry, but on this one I think the political weasels (probably) get a pass.

Oh and passport details as a security check?  Excuse me while I piss myself laughing.  Why not ask me for my mother's maiden name, it's about as secure.  Not only that, but there are large numbers of people without a passport; many of them paying tax or drawing pensions.
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

Andrij

  • Андрій
  • Ερασιτεχνικός μισάνθρωπος
Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #21428 on: January 05, 2019, 10:38:36 am »
SHUT THE FCUK UP!

I'm watching a live feed of $event.  Lots of it are in a language not understood by most listeners (and only partially by me), but is anyone providing a translation? Of course not!  They're talking over the event, saying the same thing over and over, in ever more convoluted ways - and things that have been already endlessly said prior to $event.

I found one feast where the talking head at least shuts up every once in a while; other feeds had non-stop babbling.

Either translate, or SHUT THE FCUK UP!

I'll have to look for an official recording later in the day.

ETA
After nearly two hours there is finally a translation (prepared statements are now being read).
;D  Andrij.  I pronounce you Complete and Utter GIT   :thumbsup:

Andrij

  • Андрій
  • Ερασιτεχνικός μισάνθρωπος
Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #21429 on: January 05, 2019, 11:07:03 am »
OK we can blame HMG for pushing everything on-line - which I think is a huge fucking mistake, but that's another argument entirely - but the issues described are straight-forward programming errors that should never, _ever_ have got past even the most cursory testing.  You want to blame something / someone?  Blame the half-arsed procurement processes and technically incompetent "managers" used by the Civil Service and the other non-elected branches of the state as well as the IT industry's obsession with employing young (i.e. dirt cheap) programmers who wouldn't know a unit, integration or any other kind of test if it hit them between the eyes with a month old haddock.  Rule 0 of software;  You want good?  You pay for it.   Sorry, but on this one I think the political weasels (probably) get a pass.

Oh and passport details as a security check?  Excuse me while I piss myself laughing.  Why not ask me for my mother's maiden name, it's about as secure.  Not only that, but there are large numbers of people without a passport; many of them paying tax or drawing pensions.

While I agree those are basic issues which should never have made it into a live version, I don't think HMG/Civil Service can ever be considered blameless.  I used to think it was always the fault of developers, mucking about, inflating their profits, etc.  Then I was involved in a government IT project.   :sick: 
fx: timey-wimey... two month before go-live
CS: The Minister says $system needs to do $NewThing
Us:  Well, that seems feasible.  We can probably get that into next year's second release.
CS:  That won't do - Minister needs that in the initial release.  He plans to announce $NewThing later this week.
Us:  (paraphrase) The Minister can take a long walk off a short pier.
CS:  But it's just a couple of sentences!
Us:  Let us explain how those two sentences translate into reality.
CS:  Oh... But the Minister won't be happy.
In the end, go-live was delayed for other reasons.  At that point, our CS contacts had changed, new bods wanted to put their stamp on $system, questioned half the decisions made earlier, and in general made life difficult.  Gov't £ is nice, but it comes at a cost.
;D  Andrij.  I pronounce you Complete and Utter GIT   :thumbsup:

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #21430 on: January 05, 2019, 12:22:37 pm »
It's the engineering version of Fundamental Attribution Error.  When you come across something that's badly engineered, instead of asking how incompetent the person who designed it was, it's better to ask what ludicrous constraints they were working under at the time.

ob-xkcd:

To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #21431 on: January 05, 2019, 12:38:57 pm »
Similar to the user code, the tax system has password restrictions including maximum length (and likely stored plaintext). Last time I looked the password setting bit accepted my too long password, but silently truncated it. The login bit didn’t truncate, so getting in was hard.

Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #21432 on: January 05, 2019, 03:45:17 pm »
OK we can blame HMG for pushing everything on-line - which I think is a huge fucking mistake, but that's another argument entirely - but the issues described are straight-forward programming errors that should never, _ever_ have got past even the most cursory testing.  You want to blame something / someone?  Blame the half-arsed procurement processes and technically incompetent "managers" used by the Civil Service and the other non-elected branches of the state as well as the IT industry's obsession with employing young (i.e. dirt cheap) programmers who wouldn't know a unit, integration or any other kind of test if it hit them between the eyes with a month old haddock.  Rule 0 of software;  You want good?  You pay for it.   Sorry, but on this one I think the political weasels (probably) get a pass.

Oh and passport details as a security check?  Excuse me while I piss myself laughing.  Why not ask me for my mother's maiden name, it's about as secure.  Not only that, but there are large numbers of people without a passport; many of them paying tax or drawing pensions.

While I agree those are basic issues which should never have made it into a live version, I don't think HMG/Civil Service can ever be considered blameless.  I used to think it was always the fault of developers, mucking about, inflating their profits, etc.  Then I was involved in a government IT project.   :sick: 
fx: timey-wimey... two month before go-live
CS: The Minister says $system needs to do $NewThing
Us:  Well, that seems feasible.  We can probably get that into next year's second release.
CS:  That won't do - Minister needs that in the initial release.  He plans to announce $NewThing later this week.
Us:  (paraphrase) The Minister can take a long walk off a short pier.
CS:  But it's just a couple of sentences!
Us:  Let us explain how those two sentences translate into reality.
CS:  Oh... But the Minister won't be happy.
In the end, go-live was delayed for other reasons.  At that point, our CS contacts had changed, new bods wanted to put their stamp on $system, questioned half the decisions made earlier, and in general made life difficult.  Gov't £ is nice, but it comes at a cost.
^ this
I've had exactly the same sort of experience.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

TheLurker

  • Goes well with magnolia.
Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #21433 on: January 05, 2019, 07:41:44 pm »
<snip>
CS:  But it's just a couple of sentences!
Us:  Let us explain how those two sentences translate into reality.
CS:  Oh... But the Minister won't be happy.
</snip>
^ this
I've had exactly the same sort of experience.
Pshaw.  Rank amateurs the pair of you.  Come back when you've had 20+ years fighting engaging with the CS in its various forms on far, far too many projects.  Then will we strip our sleeves and show our scars and say,  "These wounds I had on*... "  :)

Joking aside that's exactly the sort of thing I meant by,  'half-arsed procurement processes and technically incompetent "managers"' and there are times it's so bad you could weep.

*Sorry Bill, couldn't resist the temptation.
Τα πιο όμορφα ταξίδια γίνονται με τις δικές μας δυνάμεις - Φίλοι του Ποδήλατου

T42

  • Gaulois réfractaire
Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #21434 on: January 13, 2019, 09:55:17 am »
Amazon gift tokens. :demon:
I dare eat all that may become a man.

But hold the oysters.