Author Topic: Open Public Roads - Clarification  (Read 4511 times)

Open Public Roads - Clarification
« on: April 28, 2012, 09:04:31 am »
I have recently joined AudaxUK and am seeking clarification on the definition of "open public roads".  Does it include for instance Sustrans off-road routes such as the disused railway along NCN 6 between Northampton and M'Harboro?  I have asked AudaxUK and surprisingly they aren't sure... in fact it was suggested to post the question to YACF... so here I am :)
Most of the stuff I say is true because I saw it in a dream and I don't have the presence of mind to make up lies when I'm asleep.   Bryan Andreas

Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2012, 09:16:57 am »
I think the phrase is intended to indicate to the entrant that they will not have the ROUTE to themselves and that it will not be closed to the public during the ride, rather than being a legal definition of a road.  So, yes, I would guess NCN and Sustrans routes would be covered.  I am not an Audax UK official!

Giraffe

  • I brake for Giraffes
Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2012, 09:28:22 am »
Your example would be off-road and wouldn't usually be included in an on-road randonnee unless for a short stretch with a surface rideable on skinny(ish) tyres.
For off-road rides I used to ask for them to be on PROWs and to be at a low max. speed because of other users.

Actually, NCN 6 has a couple of unusual 'hazards': the tunnels. I walked the whole way (and back to Gt. Oxendon) and found the tunnels a little fraught even on foot. They'd be OK with a good headlight but knowing some AUKs and their lighting...!
2x4: thick plank; 4x4: 2 of 'em.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2012, 09:31:50 am »
What is the context of this magical 3-word phrase? I would say that is quite important!

If you mean the entry form (which says summat like : "Note: ... ; The route is on open public roads" ) then you should be aware that quite a few events use short sections of things like the NCN, but they are never compulsory. You just have to get to the nominated control points.

Does that answer the question?

[Looks like my answer is basically the same as Peter's!]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2012, 09:34:38 am »
Agree with what Peter said - this phrase is on the entry form to clarify - some cycling events get the roads closed to other traffic, but audax events don't. Lots of calendar ride routes use or suggest using some off-road paths for bits of the ride, including NCN and others. In addition, you're not expected to ride on private roads and these won't be included in working out the shortest distance between controls.

What is the context for asking - are you putting together your own route? Or is this a question about an event in the audax calendar?
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2012, 10:11:38 am »
It's also worth noting that the route specified by the organiser is merely advisory although in reality it's also probably the shortest and/ or the most pleasant route between the controls. You're free to take any route you fancy as long as you visit the controls in the specified order and within the time limits.
It didn't look at all like that in the photographs

Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 12:11:41 pm »
'Open Roads' is merely indicating that you're sharing the roads with other traffic/road users. This will apply to any public right of way.

plum

Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2012, 12:17:19 pm »
Surely you wouldn't organise a mass participation cycling event to pass through a path where people are out walking their dogs and pushing prams?

Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2012, 12:18:14 pm »
I take it as public highways, so anything open to the public and legal to cycle on.
The Phoenix Trail has been used and so has a similar Sustrans route on an event I rode  which was organised by the late Graham Mills.
I wouldn't use NCN6 from Market Harborough to Northampton for an Audax unless it was less than  100k or an off road event. Not on road tyres when there's a pretty good main road.

Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2012, 01:45:33 pm »
Many thanks for all your responses!  The reason for the question and also for joining AUK was that I recently rode from my home in Reading to visit family in Lincolnshire. It was 152 miles and a large part of it was on Sustrans off road routes including NCN6 and that very dark tunnel!  It got me thinking about Audax DIYs so I joined, read the handbook and the this question arose.  Thanks again, I understand the intent of the rule now.
Most of the stuff I say is true because I saw it in a dream and I don't have the presence of mind to make up lies when I'm asleep.   Bryan Andreas

Giraffe

  • I brake for Giraffes
Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2012, 03:36:58 pm »
Surely you wouldn't organise a mass participation cycling event to pass through a path where people are out walking their dogs and pushing prams?
Hell of the North Cotswolds? A sort of sportif on tracks. The Organiser offered it to me as an Audax event but choked a bit on my suggestion of 8 - 12kph so as not to endanger all the other people on the route.
2x4: thick plank; 4x4: 2 of 'em.

Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2012, 05:46:36 pm »
Surely you wouldn't organise a mass participation cycling event to pass through a path where people are out walking their dogs and pushing prams?

Plum, there are a couple of events up here (north) that use short sections of cycletrack which can also be walked along.  But I don't think there's much to worry about: even very well attended audaxes are "mass-participation" for about the first 400 metres only before they settle down into ones and twos with quarter of a mile between them!

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2012, 07:26:29 pm »
I have used that very section of NCN6 (Market Harborough to Northampton) on a DIY.
I've also done more than one calendar event where we went on cycle paths that weren't 'open road'.

I'd always thought 'open road' on the entry form was to distinguish from 'closed roads'.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2012, 07:37:35 pm »
I have used that very section of NCN6 (Market Harborough to Northampton) on a DIY.
<perks up ears>
Would you recommend it? Where were you heading from/to (controls I mean)? Northampton is a real obstacle on N-bound routes from here.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2012, 07:51:15 pm »
I'll butt in here, but I'd like to know what fboab thinks.

It's a bit rough in places. A few bits with loose stones. Rideable on a road bike, but I prefer to use my mountain bike and plod along it. I like to cut accross to Pitsford Reservior; where there is a cafe; via the bridleway. It would make a good forum ride really. Route 6 and around the reservior. The tunnels make it more fun and it's well worth doing this route just for those. I've even thought about doing a night ride along it and having a brew in a tunnel. Once you get a few miles north of Northampton, especially after you cross the gated level crossing by the train museum, it gets quieter. It does cut out a few hills too. The road from Northampton to Market Harborough (for that is where it goes) does go up and down a fair bit. It's quite a nice ride really. But I prefer to use the road if I'm tring to get somewhere reasonably quickly. It'd be pretty mucky after heavy rain too.

Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2012, 08:25:18 pm »

I'd always thought 'open road' on the entry form was to distinguish from 'closed roads'.

It means: behave yourself, it's not a race, stay left of the white line, be courteous to other road users, obey the rules of the road, don't be a prat onna bike.

Etc.

Technically, Fboab is correct.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2012, 08:32:46 pm »
I have used that very section of NCN6 (Market Harborough to Northampton) on a DIY.
<perks up ears>
Would you recommend it? Where were you heading from/to (controls I mean)? Northampton is a real obstacle on N-bound routes from here.
I like it. I was (burnishes medal) sustrans ranger for it when I lived in Spratton.

The track between the BVW (Brampton Valley Way) and Brixworth is the worst surface!
My best friend lives in Brixworth so I go to hers rather than the cafe at the country park- she does better cakes and the gossip is MUCH better  ;)

My route (IIRC) was St Neots-Oundle-M Harboro-Towcester-MK-St Neots. I met up with my friend at The Brampton Halt, skirted round the east of N'ton (through the Bramptons, Harlestone, Kisl', Gayton, Tiffield, Towcester) and made a navigational error onto the A5 to MK (which was grim).
The surface on the BVW is generally OK, hard packed, and even after rain it's not too squirmy. I had M+ so wasn't bothered, not sure I'd be so keen on anything flimsy.

Teethy- if you do a forum ride there we'd be well up for that. Off-road there's some lovely bridleways, and it'd make a nice route.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2012, 10:50:38 pm »
My route (IIRC) was St Neots-Oundle-M Harboro-Towcester-MK-St Neots. I met up with my friend at The Brampton Halt, skirted round the east of N'ton (through the Bramptons, Harlestone, Kisl', Gayton, Tiffield, Towcester) and made a navigational error onto the A5 to MK (which was grim).

You certainly did make a navigational error. All those villages are to the West. ;)


Quote
Teethy- if you do a forum ride there we'd be well up for that. Off-road there's some lovely bridleways, and it'd make a nice route.

I might just do that. It'd be July or August the earliest. If I remember. ::-)

arabella

  • no se porque yo no lo se
Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2012, 01:54:09 pm »
<nostalgic>
when I was young I used to cross the Brampton Valley Way twice daily on my way to & from school, when it was still a railway with real trains and everythink
</nostalgic>
In the dark, all views are the same.

mikewigley

Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2012, 10:03:52 pm »
I use "Open Public Roads" to mean anywhere that it's legal to cycle along on a private excursion. 

John Perrin has his Knockerdown 200 coming up that uses some of the Sustrans paths in the Peak District such as Tissington Trail and Manifold Trail.  Particularly exciting will be the recently opened Monsall Trail - the former Midland railway line through some spectacular scenery and some substantial tunnels.  On a nice day you wouldn't expect to be able to belt along at "evens" pace but it sounds to be a great ride.

On the Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch 400, we get to use the excellent cyclepath right through the middle of Chester as well as the cycling facilties along the North Wales Coast.  On these, you really can get a move on (provided you a courteous to any other users of the path of course).  Actually, it sounds as if I'm going to have to divert part of the ride - you may recall ship ran aground near Llandulas the other week, and the cycle path is going to be closed for a while.

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2012, 10:17:29 pm »
I'll ask another sort of related question.

On a DIY, would I be allowed to pass through a secure site which isn't an open public road, but I do have a pass that would allow me to use it?

I would be riding about a mile on 20mph site roads that are two lane and look just like normal roads, but due to it being a licensed site you have to have a security pass to be allowed in. It would make my route planning a bit easier if I was allowed.
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2012, 11:20:13 pm »
I'll ask another sort of related question.

On a DIY, would I be allowed to pass through a secure site which isn't an open public road, but I do have a pass that would allow me to use it?

I would be riding about a mile on 20mph site roads that are two lane and look just like normal roads, but due to it being a licensed site you have to have a security pass to be allowed in. It would make my route planning a bit easier if I was allowed.
As long as you declare it. Might need to send a map or summat to your friendly local organiser.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2012, 09:48:06 am »
Bit of an unlevel playing field, that.  Effectively you're riding a route that isn't available to anybody else. 
Though I suppose that also applies to any DIY that starts from home.
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Open Public Roads - Clarification
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2012, 09:56:23 am »
Surely not declaring this sort of thing is part of the fun of DIYs!

(It would be a lot less ethical if/when we had fixed routes)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles