Author Topic: Reducing meat intake for environmental reasons  (Read 3180 times)

Re: Reducing meat intake for environmental reasons
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2018, 01:27:54 pm »
Rabbit is a nearly inexhaustible resource and cheap

Normally at least €20/kg here in Paris, unless on special.  Not cheap and not veggie.

The title of the thread caught my attention because it was precisely my motivation for a few years of vegetarianism (long ago).  The French influence in 1980's Abidjan got the better of me.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Reducing meat intake for environmental reasons
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2018, 01:32:04 pm »
With veggie chilli and bolognese, it's not really the texture or presence of meat, it's the taste. Bolognese just needs that pancetta and ideally a bit of chicken liver to really get going. Otherwise it's just tomato sauce. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not the rich ragu that bolognese demands. Ironically, I find it benefits from using minimum quantities for meat – less is more, the meat is more flavouring than substance, it really should be a sauce to coat your pasta. People always make the mistake of sticking a pile of mince in it. Not needed.

Carbonara also works well with a small amount of pancetta or smoky bacon to flavour the sauce. Fry it up till crisp while cooking the pasta, tip pasta in the pan with the pancetta (off the heat), add the egg and parmesan, stir and serve. One rasher is easily enough.

Chilli though, I find does need a pile of meat. It's a meaty dish. Otherwise, it just ends up as bean stew. Nothing against that either, but it's not proper chilli, which needs beef in quantity (also some bacon). Possibly I was an American for too long.
!nataS pihsroW

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: Reducing meat intake for environmental reasons
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2018, 02:37:32 pm »
Rabbit is a nearly inexhaustible resource and cheap

Normally at least €20/kg here in Paris, unless on special.  Not cheap and not veggie.

The title of the thread caught my attention because it was precisely my motivation for a few years of vegetarianism (long ago).  The French influence in 1980's Abidjan got the better of me.

Venison is also surprisingly dear given that there's so many of the bloody things bouncing onto car bonnets all the time.
Most of the stuff sold in shops comes from farms (one of the largest isn't far from me) but there's a serious overpopulation that either needs humans out there with rifles and grallochs or a reintroduction of wolves.
In such a situation producing animals for meat that only exist through human intervention (sheep and cows) is getting pretty absurd.

Note: I've rebuilt two cars after Bambi suicides and have had a number of near misses while out on the bikes. Most annoyingly neither time could I claim the carcase (and I wouldn't know how to gralloch either) so didn't even get some tasty meals to offset the cost of the rebuilds.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Reducing meat intake for environmental reasons
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2018, 05:03:12 pm »
In terms of environmental impact, cheese is worse than chicken or pork.

Re: Reducing meat intake for environmental reasons
« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2018, 08:39:55 pm »
Rabbit is a nearly inexhaustible resource and cheap

Normally at least €20/kg here in Paris, unless on special.  Not cheap and not veggie.

Thats big cities charging loads for stuff that's virtually free in the countryside and is free if you have an air rifle and know someone with some land as they will nearly always be open to you reducing the local bunny population. You would hate to know what a brace of pheasant costs here as well (<£5).
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Reducing meat intake for environmental reasons
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2018, 09:01:21 pm »

Venison is also surprisingly dear given that there's so many of the bloody things bouncing onto car bonnets all the time.
Most of the stuff sold in shops comes from farms (one of the largest isn't far from me) but there's a serious overpopulation that either needs humans out there with rifles and grallochs or a reintroduction of wolves.
In such a situation producing animals for meat that only exist through human intervention (sheep and cows) is getting pretty absurd.

Note: I've rebuilt two cars after Bambi suicides and have had a number of near misses while out on the bikes. Most annoyingly neither time could I claim the carcase (and I wouldn't know how to gralloch either) so didn't even get some tasty meals to offset the cost of the rebuilds.

I would be happy with cows and sheep being feralized and hunted. Would free up a fair bit of land as well as providing a good tourist industry.
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Reducing meat intake for environmental reasons
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2018, 09:14:40 pm »
You can't 'feralize' most farm animals. They're dependent on humans for many aspects of their care.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: Reducing meat intake for environmental reasons
« Reply #57 on: October 22, 2018, 11:06:00 pm »
You can't 'feralize' most farm animals. They're dependent on humans for many aspects of their care.
They are now, but they would have to evolve to not be. About time they learnt to stand on their own four feet.

The animal I would be even more in favour of feralizing is the chicken. They are naturally forest birds, and would be quite good to hunt.
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.

Re: Reducing meat intake for environmental reasons
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2018, 09:04:54 am »
Have you ever kept chickens BenT ? They woudl be absolutely rubbish to hunt. They are too stupid. They would just sit there in the lower branches of a tree watching you as you shot them. It would be like hunting apples but less seasonal.

Cows will go feral (and in not many generations) but become dangerous quickly if not domesticated. Sheep die as there coats keep growing. Also sheep just die anyway of random stupid things they do to themselves as any farmer will tell you (really they are particularly skilled at topping themselves).

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Reducing meat intake for environmental reasons
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2018, 09:37:42 am »
Have you ever kept chickens BenT ? They woudl be absolutely rubbish to hunt. They are too stupid. They would just sit there and in the lower branches of a tree watching you as you shot them. It would be like hunting apples but less seasonal.

Yes, but, remember you would want to shoot them with either a rifle, crossbow, or better still, bow and arrow* - rather than a shotgun, as you wouldn't want bits of lead in your casserole, and they are relatively small, so unless you were standing over them at point blank range** you would still have to be a fairly good shot. Shotgun would be cheating.

* or even, for comedy value, a revolver
** which I'm by no means arguing against, but it would be less of a challenge.
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: Reducing meat intake for environmental reasons
« Reply #60 on: October 23, 2018, 11:29:51 am »
In terms of environmental impact, cheese is worse than chicken or pork.

Certainly is when I eat cheese  :sick:

Cows will go feral (and in not many generations) but become dangerous quickly if not domesticated. Sheep die as there coats keep growing. Also sheep just die anyway of random stupid things they do to themselves as any farmer will tell you (really they are particularly skilled at topping themselves).

Domesticated cows are a danger enough to humans as it is... being surrounded by them is terrifying, thankfully I found a route out before one decided to rest on me... unforutantely that route was over a fence on a cliff edge...

The blackface that lived on Hirta were moved to Boerary to stop cross breeding with the Soay; they seem to be doing ok; the Soay of course were never domesticated enough to have that problem.

The lack of intelligence in Sheep and Chicken is rather handy for domestication and probably encouraged by it; a chook that figured out that it could just flyaway from the coop is after all not much use for egg production.



My biggest problem with Vegans isn't that they don't want to eat animal product (which is fair enough) or that they treat it as a religion.
No my biggest problem with Vegans is their constant posting of "look how cure this animal is, why would you eat it", because that animal is almost always one that humans have produced specifically for the food chain; either way that cute animal will die, either by being foodstuff or due to necessary extinction if it wasn't being produced for foodstuff.

Re: Reducing meat intake for environmental reasons
« Reply #61 on: October 23, 2018, 11:49:27 am »
I always cook vegetarian and often vegan. I use quorn or similar meat substitutes to add protein and texture, but herbs and lentils for flavour.

I make risotto with or without quorn pieces,  lentil or bean stews to go with jacket potatoes, pasta sauce with onion, grated carrot and tomatoes - sometimes also quorn mince. If I cook veg and boiled potatoes, I do omelette or veggie sausages or pies instead. I was brought up with veggie options so I don't really consider meat and 2 veg as the norm. At home our Christmas dinner was lentil savoury - a pre-war vegetarian recipe, with the normal trimmings. It's better than a big bird because you can prepare it weeks before and freeze it and just put it in the oven on the day. It's nicer too.

1/2 lb red lentils
1/2 pt cold water
3 shredded wheat or similar quantity of bread crumbs
4 tomatoes or a tin - if you strain the tin or use fresh tomatoes, it will be quite dry - my mum uses the tomato juice to make a sauce with herbs and seasoning; my sister and I just use the whole tin of tomatoes without straining.
1/2 lb grated cheese
2 onions
nut fat or cooking oil

Rinse the lentils, bring to the boil and simmer until part cooked. Add tomatoes and cook more
Fry the onions
Add the onions, cheese and half the shredded wheat to the lentils and stir thoroughly
Put mixture into shallow greased dish
Crumble remaining shredded wheat on the top
Bake until brown and crisp

Most of my cooking starts with fry onions, add some veg and maybe quorn.

Add rice and water to make risotto or quinoa or spelt  for those variations

Add tomatoes and herbs and possibly lentils to make mince

Add lentils or beans to make stew


I regularly start cooking and decide what it is going to be later. Some things go with pasta one day, rice another and potatoes on a third.





Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.