what to chose - steel touring bike

[mike]

So, in the hope I'll be able to take a bit of time off this & next year to justgetoutandrideabike, I'm planning a touring bike.  Steel, lugged, retro, big panniers, fairly bombproof but not *too* slow..

Current thinking is:
 - Robin Mather
 - Longstaff tourer
 - Dahon Tournado (which would be separable - handy for flying - but not as lovely and American)
 - Mercian King of Mercia

any strong feelings from the experts? or what else should I consider?

& I know I should probably go for bar-end or down tube shifters, and shimano 9-speed, but (apart from the cost) would chorus be *really* stupid?

[Jacomus]

My choice would be the Mercian - totally scrummy!

Though I would have them put sus forks, and disk mounts too (but thats just me being wierd  )

Why would you want to use bar end shifters? 

There should be no shame in making a bike up exactly how you want it, not to conform with some sandals and beard notion of what a touring bike should have.

I recommend the following though process.

1) What do I want?
2) Can I afford it?
3) Slight tweaking of what I want so I can pay for it.
4) F*ck you guys, I'm building my bike, if you don't like it, go build your own.

[Frenchie]

I think you've got the list!

- Mather for the style and craftmanship
- Mercian for the same reasons, plus the heart and more!

I really like the quality of the Dahon products, although I have never come close to their full separable versions. I find them well equipped and fit-for-purpose. They are just expensive here compared to the continent. I have not been taken away by the Longstaffs I have seen, nor the experience associated with getting one built.

I am not a Campy person in the first place  , but even Mercian would probably advise on some Shimano for touring, although you do not give much away in terms of what you will be doing.

[donpedro]

Either way I would go for a separable frame! Airlines etc. are toughening up their rules and fees as fuel cost rice. Soon it will be cheaper to buy on site than to bring!

You could do it yourself. I'm about to convert a pile of 80's frames to separable. Think I'll use the couplings from A-headset stems or, provided I can find a local blacksmith that knows how to, braze something like the system Rene Herse used. A complete bike with 700c or 26" wheels would fit in a large Samsonite bag or even better, buy a purpose made foldable backpack:
http://www.sandsmachine.com/ac_back.htm

[border-rider]

My list would be

Mather
Longstaff
Mercian
Dave Yates

Longstaff if you want something very traditional.
Yates if you don't.  He's got some very good ideas and he can make something robust yet spritely. He's an audax rider...
Mercian are nice, of course.  Can't go wrong.

But, if money were no object, it'd have to be Robin Mather.   Maybe just look at his website, give him a call, maybe visit him.  He's a nice guy too.

[mike]

the Robin mather frames do look lovely, but the Dahon is quite a lot cheaper and I might not worry so much about it getting damaged..

I'll give him a call to talk it through.

[Polar Bear]

I would recommend Roberts but for the fact that the paint seems more eager to flake off the frame than bind to it 

[JT]

Surly Long Haul Trucker.

Nothing fancy, just a solid, reliable and rugged tourer. Reasonably priced too.

[IanDG]

Why would you want to use bar end shifters? 

There should be no shame in making a bike up exactly how you want it, not to conform with some sandals and beard notion of what a touring bike should have.

I've just gone back to bar ends on my touring bike as I found teh Tiagra STI's annoying on the middle ring, however I adjusted the cable I was getting too many sprockets rub on the front mech gate. The bar end shifters are friction on the front changer so can be adjusted to stop the rubbing


(bearded sandal wearing cyclist)
but I only wear sandals off the bike I dont have any of those SPD thingys

[donpedro]

Why would you want to use bar end shifters? 

There should be no shame in making a bike up exactly how you want it, not to conform with some sandals and beard notion of what a touring bike should have.

I've just gone back to bar ends on my touring bike as I found teh Tiagra STI's annoying on the middle ring, however I adjusted the cable I was getting too many sprockets rub on the front mech gate. The bar end shifters are friction on the front changer so can be adjusted to stop the rubbing


(bearded sandal wearing cyclist)
but I only wear sandals off the bike I dont have any of those SPD thingys

...and if you, or the airport staff, happend to bend the rear gear or droput the rear gearleaver has a optonal friction-mode too!
This way you could also fit and make the gears work with any other kassett or freewheel system!

[andrew_s]

I would recommend Roberts but for the fact that the paint seems more eager to flake off the frame than bind to it 

The paint on my Longstaff hasn't been too robust either 

As for speccing a bike, are you going to want to use it off surfaced roads,even if only occasionally? Things like a crossing of the Veleta or the Col de Parpaillon, or Leh-Manali. If so you will want to be able to fit bigger tyres than normal dual pivots allow (about 28mm for shimano 57mm deep drop).

[border-rider]

bigger tyres than normal dual pivots allow (about 28mm for shimano 57mm deep drop).

Or even 32, and you could possibly get a 35 in there safely



Those should be fat enough for most sensible roughstuff.

[Tom B]

TSR Moulton?

[mike]

TSR Moulton?

ooh - I was lusting after one of them at the bike show.. can they carry as much luggage as a 700c bike?

Robin Thorne, unfortunately, has a 22 month waiting list

to answer another - I'd like to fit 32s, but nothing bigger.

[mr endon]

Paul Hewitt.
http://www.hewittbikefitting.co.uk/uploads/reviews/bikes/C_1999-02_Custom-Touring.pdf

[bikenerd]

TSR Moulton?

I was about to suggest the same.  If I was off on a round the world tour I'd take my APB.
There's a subtle difference between the models in the TSR range which they don't publicise much: the TSR 30 and TSR8 have a different frame to the TSR27 and TSR9.  The TSR30/TSR8 frame has less mudguard clearance (28mm) than the TSR27/TSR9 (40mm).
If I was to buy a Moulton from scratch I'd buy the TSR9 and change the components over to have 18 gears and drop bars.  I'd have to either have bar end shifters and V-brake levers or change the brakes to cantilevers and fit STIs.  9 speed, naturally!  (The rear OLN is 135mm so you don't have much choice)
The luggage carrying capability of a Moulton has to be experienced.  Put 15kg on the back and the bike doesn't handle any differently!    If you get the large rear rack and Carradice bag, plus two Carradice super C front panniers, the luggage capacity is a massive 58 litres!
If you decide to go the custom Moulton route talk to Paul at Villiers Velo

[donpedro]

Ritchey's separable Break Away CC-frame in steel or titanium could carry a reasonable load and fenders/32mm tires:
http://www.bikefanclub.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1963&limit=recent
http://www.ritcheylogic.com/web/Ritchey~Logic/Ritchey~Site/web/EN/main/breakaway/20793.html

Good budget choice are the Surly Long Haule Trucker or Cross Check, sold as frames and built up bikes.
There's also a separable version, the Travelers Check. The CC/TC are great do-it-all bikes and can also be built up as a fixed/singlespeed as they have semi-horizontal dropouts!:
http://beauty.nagog.smasher.net:81/blog/archives/000438.html
http://groups.google.com/group/SurlyLHT/browse_thread/thread/2fcf28da473c102e/82c81c88072e2316?#82c81c88072e2316
http://www.surlybikes.com/travelerscheck.html

[clarion]

Bob Jackson!

[Frenchie]

Of course you could simply take your Pompino for touring, like other normal people do... 

[mike]

thanks all! (apart from Frenchie )

The richey cross looks great, but doesnt have any mudguard / rack eyes (that I can see). 

Bob Jackson - I'd forgotten about them.. will add to the mix

But I think I'm going to give Villiers a call first - they do moultons and retro steel so they can hopefully give me the pros and cons, and are a sensible distance away from here so I can ride down and see them..

[Frenchie]

I have to say that I do like the TSR style bikes too.

PS Just bought a second hand Pompino for audaxing and touring!  

[Charlotte]

I'd either go for a custom, lugged frame with S&S couplings from one of our fine British craftsmen framebuilders or I'd go for the Moulton.

Given how shockingly pricey S&S are (we've just specced an awful lot of them on the new tandem) I'd be tempted to go with the Moulton.  Unless you're going for serious, bonkers, out-of-the-way in the back of beyond touring, in which case I'd get a very vanilla steel tourer with 26" wheels and friction shifters.

You could always get a Rohloff Thorn 

[bikenerd]

You could always get a Rohloff Thorn 

Avon Valley Cyclery do a Rohloff Moulton 

Edit: fixed link

[clarion]

Course, Jacksons do frames set up for Rohloff (and they're much, much prettier than Thorns )

[Frenchie]

Course, Jacksons do frames set up for Rohloff (and they're much, much prettier than Thorns )

So do Mercian!

I have a Thorn Raven; my daughter and I are happy with it, although it is a bit of a luxury for what we do with it.