Author Topic: Grammar that makes you cringe  (Read 464149 times)

ian

  • feat. Undead Jess & Finestre, Queen of Hell
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5475 on: December 05, 2019, 10:53:17 pm »
Oh, I think you find that decimate means kill one in ten, says a passing pedant. No, it doesn't in the 21st century unless you're still using Julius F. Caesar's dictionary.
Have you been reading this?
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In fact, by removing apostrophes altogether, the pedantry arsenal is vastly reduced. Without their favourite punctuation mark of judgement, your average pedant will be forced to make do with old favourites such as split infinitives and insisting on the “correct” meaning of “decimate”.

I haven't, but the panel agrees with the sentiment. I can't remember where I saw it. A tweet somewhere I think.
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Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5476 on: December 06, 2019, 09:38:32 am »
Never mind the apostrophe, the current fad for the misplaced question mark is making me annoyed?
The aforementioned Gretchen McCulloch demonstrates the difference between a linguist and a grammarian:
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So if you’re mentioning me somewhere, please do double-check the spelling of my name?
https://gretchenmcculloch.com/name/
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5477 on: December 07, 2019, 08:38:18 pm »
Never mind the apostrophe, the current fad for the misplaced question mark is making me annoyed?

Nowhere near as annoying as using the phrase "question mark" instead of the word "question". As in "... there is still the question mark about whether A is better than B". I've not yet heard anyone say "please answer the question mark" but I'm sure it won't be long.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5478 on: December 07, 2019, 08:54:09 pm »
Presumably that's linguistic drift from 'a question mark hangs over <statement x>'?

mattc

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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5479 on: December 08, 2019, 04:57:27 pm »
Presumably that's linguistic drift from 'a question mark hangs over <statement x>'?
Yeah, that was my first thought. But it's still wrong!

talking of which ...

"Off of"; is there any context where this 'orrible construction makes sense? Or is justified?
(I just heard it on a poem off of that Radio4, so I did wonder if it has establishment backing ... )

It's definitely used painfully whenever I hear it, but I'm open to education on possible valid usages.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5480 on: December 08, 2019, 05:01:00 pm »
"Based off of" is now, it seems, the standard construction, which is kind of upside down compared to "based on" which I'm used to. But things change. And didn't the Rolling Stones sing "Get off of my cloud" in about 1967?
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5481 on: December 08, 2019, 05:05:08 pm »
It's one of those things that passes unnoticed when uttered in a strong estuary accent, but should be written with caution, and never spoken by posh people.


(Americans seem to base things off of where we base them on, in the same way that they fill things out and we fill them in.)
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5482 on: December 08, 2019, 05:06:55 pm »
But things change.
... in which case we could decimate this thread before it got going.

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And didn't the Rolling Stones sing "Get off of my cloud" in about 1967?
yes they did! Good reference (it was my in-laws favourite song - gosh, did that story improve with every telling ... )

But song lyrics are immune to grammar - if it scans, it's right!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5483 on: December 08, 2019, 05:08:11 pm »
But song lyrics are immune to grammar - if it scans, it's right!
Agreed.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5484 on: December 08, 2019, 05:09:48 pm »
But song lyrics are immune to grammar - if it scans, it's right!
Agreed.

I'd say the same goes for poetry.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5485 on: December 08, 2019, 05:11:55 pm »
(Americans seem to base things off of where we base them on, in the same way that they fill things out and we fill them in.)
The Young British People of Today use "based off of" without any awareness that it might be of transpondian provenance. Doubtless in umpty years time they'll be grumbling about the modern habit of saying "based in" (or whatever) as opposed to the proper British tradition of "based off of".
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5486 on: December 08, 2019, 05:13:01 pm »
But song lyrics are immune to grammar - if it scans, it's right!
Agreed.

I'd say the same goes for poetry.
i wrote a po'em
about punctuation
because grammar, i kno'em!
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5487 on: December 08, 2019, 05:19:39 pm »
But song lyrics are immune to grammar - if it scans, it's right!
Agreed.

Lots of lines in songs don't scan, but the surplus syllables are usually got through quickly between lines while the accompaniment does a bit of twiddly.
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5488 on: December 08, 2019, 10:08:50 pm »
But things change.
... in which case we could decimate this thread before it got going.
Not possible.
And if we decimated it now there’d still be almost 200 pages of whittling.
L'enfer, c'est les autos.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5489 on: December 08, 2019, 11:59:41 pm »
From a vegan Facebook friend.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5490 on: December 09, 2019, 10:43:10 am »
Once upon a time there were three little pigs.  The first pig built his house out of cheese?
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
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hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5491 on: December 09, 2019, 02:54:35 pm »
I suspect AutoComplete wrote 'products' instead of 'premises' and nobody noticed the product.

I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll eat your house up!

T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5492 on: December 09, 2019, 03:20:48 pm »
Former dairy products is worrying.  Listeria?
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5493 on: December 09, 2019, 07:38:08 pm »
But things change.
... in which case we could decimate this thread before it got going.
Not possible.
And if we decimated it now there’d still be almost 200 pages of whittling.
But if we use Cudzo's logic, we can use the new improved meaning => barely 20 pages to go!  :thumbsup:
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5494 on: December 09, 2019, 07:50:09 pm »
I believe you're crediting me with ian's pearls of wisdom. Which is nice for me, but only until he sets one of his bad vampires on me.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5495 on: December 15, 2019, 01:29:17 pm »
Mangled prepositions again: Graun headline "No one is immune from loneliness". Rachel Cook-with-an-E wouldn't be immune to a boot up the arse, either, if she were in my English class.
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

offcumden

  • Oh, no!
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5496 on: December 15, 2019, 03:03:50 pm »
What's more, Rachel, 'no-one' should be hyphenated. No one individual should consider herself exempt from The Rules.

ian

  • feat. Undead Jess & Finestre, Queen of Hell
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5497 on: December 16, 2019, 10:54:32 am »
Nah, in the grand tradition of this thread, you're both wrong. 'Immune from' is an established usage and meaning according to my OED. Slightly different emphasis to 'immune to.' That said, I'd have used 'immune to' in that headline because it sounds better. Donald Trump may think he's immune from prosecution, but he's not immune to the ongoing investigations of lawmakers.

And no one hyphenates no one.
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offcumden

  • Oh, no!
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5498 on: December 16, 2019, 11:55:41 am »
And no one hyphenates no one.

Some people do, including my spellchecker (should that be hyphenated, I ask myself?). Anyway, just because most people don't, doesn't mean they're not wrong  ;)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Grammar that makes you cringe
« Reply #5499 on: December 16, 2019, 12:04:40 pm »
You'd expect "no one" to have become one word, like someone, anyone, everyone. Presumably the reason it hasn't is because of the awkward "oo" that would create and perhaps also the similarity to "noon". That would indicate hyphenation as the logical compromise spelling, but hyphenation is broadly out of fashion for nouns, except a few neologisms, so two words it is. Mostly. Like "co-operative" and "cooperative" (does that mean "pertaining or relating to coopers"?), there ought to be scope for both.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...