LEL debrief

[juliet]

Helen - re lights: I can't fit both front light & handlebar bag on my bike (even though neither I nor my bike is particularly small!), so use a fork mount for it instead.  Would that work for you?  Mine is in fact a dynamo, but it ought to work for a non-dynamo light as well if you can find or bodge a suitable mounting thingy. 

Re DNS: I don't think I ever formally withdrew (oops) but neither did I pay up the balance when it came due (since I was in Foreign), so it would have been clear from ages in advance that I wasn't riding.  Or at least, I assumed that anyone who didn't pay up would be taken to be a DNS... 

[Fidgetbuzz]

Another big vote for a helmet cover - dorkish - me?

I use an old shower cap ( that turned up lying around unused at home)- which has lots of little yellow ducks swimming on a blue background  - does it look dorkish - it certainly does - but it works - reduces heat loss from my bald head dramatically.

[The Seldom Killer]

I started reading this and then realised that it extended to 36 pages and I'll be honest that I may not have that kind of attention span.

However, from the first seven pages there are a couple of ideas that come to mind, so here is my tuppence worth and apologies for any repetition. (This is based on volunteering at EDM with Phil. BTW, feel a bit guilty about leaving on Monday now).

1. Sleeping - I would imagine that if the weather had been more favourable then less of this would have been done. However, you need to plan for the worst, as ever. One thing that springs to mind is that sleeping doesn't actually need to be done at the control building. If the same locations are to be used then informal sleeping stations could still be set up close by. EDM is a good example of this where I understand that there is another community facility close by and a Bhuddist Temple close by that was happy to get involved in the event (to an extent, I wouldn't presume that they would jump at the option to house some sweaty snoring riders but you never know). Some riders may well be quite happy to roll an extra kilometre or two to get themselves a nice quiet dry campbed and blanket. A couple of volunteers running dedicated sleeping stations could be quite useful. It should, of course, be made clear that sleeping is nothing to do with controls and feeding and no responsibility would be accepted for a rider not getting it right.

2. Brevet cards - It seems close to heresy to suggest that riders move away from a folded card full of quirky stamps, but on such an occaision things like SI dibbers used on things like adventure races and even the retro loving 3 Peaks Cyclocross might be a better idea. They make for easy, computerised logging in, and out of controls and even the slowest of dial up style internet access should be able to cope with the low level of packet information being sent to a tracking website. If access is lost for a while, it wouldn't even take too much to bring the data back up to speed when it's restored. If people feel the pang of loss of a brevet card, you could always have someone at Lea Valley stamping, initialling and timing a nice pristine card for them to take away when the finish. If it looks too clean they can always stuff it into their shoe for the long arduous trudge to the car/hotel/train/grave afterwards.

[Really Ancien]

From looking at a lot of the footage I can now reveal that the secret extra ingredient for LEL success is the humble plastic bag. I've got lots of people putting bread bags over or under their socks. The 'slap wrap' ankle reflectors were then employed to stop them getting in the chain. Some of the more petite Italians used Brevet Card bags for the same purpose. I'd need bin liners for my feet, but my neoprene overshoes were fine.

Damon.

[Rich753]

From looking at a lot of the footage I can now reveal that the secret extra ingredient for LEL success is the humble plastic bag. I've got lots of people putting bread bags over or under their socks. The 'slap wrap' ankle reflectors were then employed to stop them getting in the chain. Some of the more petite Italians used Brevet Card bags for the same purpose. I'd need bin liners for my feet, but my neoprene overshoes were fine.

Damon.

Yes, we had a quite a few requests for plastic bags of one size or another - we had brevet-sized or bin-bag size nothing much in-between!

[Chris S]

I believe we ran out of bin bags at Coxwold as our supply had been used as coats as much as in bins. Joys of the British summer!

[Really Ancien]

Bread bags are ideal, so Heather tells me. I got a couple of shopping bags to put over my gloves at Eskdalemuir, by Langholm there was 2 inches of water in the bottom of them. One problem not mentioned so far is the agony faced by spectacle wearers, in the rain, at night with a complex route to follow. I tried not to ride with companions too much, because I had to meet as many riders as possible, but the few times I did ride with others was when they needed my eyes to guide them, especially over potholed roads. I always wear a 'baseball' style cap, as I can angle the peak to avoid the rain stinging my eyes and also to cut out headlight dazzle.
I have my own ideas about lighting and vision, preferring a fairly soft set-up which allows me to appreciate my surroundings at night. The greatest source of irritation on the whole ride was when there were very bright lights on my wheel and I was essentially captured by the black hole cast by my own shadow, not only that, but oncoming cars then don't dip and I'm doubly blinded. The only solution is to drop off onto the bright light's wheel, fall back 20 metres, wait until a smooth straight and sprint past them, hopefuly dropping them.

Damon.

[Greenbank]

Rain isn't that much of a problem for me as a glasses wearer, I wear a cotton cycling cap but that doesn't stop my glasses getting wet. Big globules of water on the lenses don't cause much of a problem, the area obscured is rather small and localised. Moving through the air also does a good job of streaming the water off the lenses too.

Mist or fog however is an utter nightmare as it creates lots of small droplets on the lenses which are much harder to see through and don't clear with the wind. I have to keep rubbing the lenses with my fingers to clear them (you never really clear them, but rather you join up all of the small droplets into larger globules that aren't so much of a problem).

I hardly suffered any glasses problems on LEL, I had a much worse time on the final stage of the Midlander Super Grimpuer back in June with several hours riding into fog/mist.

Contact lenses wouldn't help as I'd have to wear clear lensed cycling glasses anyway (due to certain eye conditions) and they'd suffer exactly the same problems as normal glasses.

[DanialW]

This is why, where possible, I wear contact lenses when out riding. I had a right mare on some of the Peak Audax winter 200s, which seem to be prone to foggy conditions.

[L Hedley]

I believe we ran out of bin bags at Coxwold as our supply had been used as coats as much as in bins. Joys of the British summer!

No we didn't, I found them all, someone had not looked where I said and they were there all the time! But yes! we could have done a good market in smaller ones as we were asked for these alot.

[Manotea]

I have to keep rubbing the lenses with my fingers to clear them... (

.... taking the greatest possible care and never doing this wearing gloves, because what happens next is that the centre of the lenses (i.e., the bit you actually see through) becomes permanently fogged with micro scratches which means you've just kissed goodbye to £300*. Don't ask me how I know.

Edit: *Which is why I bought a pair of optilabs cycling glasses which take standard lenses. Much cheaper then my civvy wire frame specs with uber thin lenses.

[mattc]

Overnight riding was 1 of the final nails in the coffin for my contacts. Sleeping in them? Keeping hands clean to get them in/out? (I lost my glasses case on LEL, so gawd help me managing contacts!)

No thanks. Certainly not on a 1000km+ ride.

[Manotea]

... could have done a good market in smaller ones as we were asked for these alot.

As soon as I reached Gamblingay I wished I'd packed some sandwich bags... for sandwiches and other goodies which don't appreciate being stuffed into jersey pockets 'au naturale'.

[Greenbank]

I have to keep rubbing the lenses with my fingers to clear them... (

.... taking the greatest possible care and never doing this wearing gloves, because what happens next is that the centre of lenses (i.e., the bit you actually see through) becomes permanently fogged with micro scratches which means you've just kissed goodbye to £300. Don't ask me how I know.

Indeed. I try and use my fingers since I'm not trying to soak up the water, only pool the small droplets into big globules.

Luckily my glasses lenses don't cost the earth, they're bog standard single vision lenses and at -2.5 dioptres I don't need  the ultra-thin/lightweight lenses. Last time I had new lenses put in these frames I paid something like £40 and most of that was the anti-scratch coating 'extra'.

The frames are the expensive bit (about £170) as they're Flexon "metal with memory" which have come in handy plenty of times playing football and getting an elbow/hand/football in the face. I would have probably broken 5 normal unflexible metal framed glasses in the last few years if I'd been wearing them.

Probably time to get my glasses redone anyway, they're very scratched (being 3 years old) and treated with not much care.

[Ivo]

I use an MTB helmet to keep as much rain as possible off my glasses. I alternated between normal ones and cycling glasses with prescription inserts. The last one was good during the day when I was not sleepy and when it wasn't raining (so less than half the time). When I had to wear my rainjacket during the day they tended to mist up  between the inserts and the glasses every time I opened my rainjacket a little bit to prevent overheating. The regular glasses functioned a lot better in the rain.
I nowadays buy some new pairs of glasses every 2-3 years when one of the local shops has an offer, 3 pairs of glasses for 200 Euro. In this way I keep them fairly unscratched.

[MSeries]

I don't use spectacles or contact lenses to aid my vision but I nearly always wear glasses for cycling, indeed I think it was Heather who remarked that she rarely sees me without glasses on, that's because she usually only sees me when I am cycling !!! I wore glasses in the rain, light enhancing ones or clear ones and my casquette kept the rain off.

[Paul D]

I seem to have the opposite experience to you lot with respect to glasses/contact lenses - I wouldn't got back to my glasses if you offered to pay me.

I never wear glasses for cycling - I've even binned my sunglasses after the last pair broke. The peaked cap is all a cyclist needs - keeps both sun and rain out of the eyes.

As for contacts - shop around guys. I have some nifty new(ish) monthly ones that I can wear for 5 nights before needing removal (although I take them out every night normally). Perfect for something like...lets pick a random example...a 4 1/2 day cycling event?

[Greenbank]

As for contacts - shop around guys.

Because of my condition (bilateral keratoconus) I have to use gas permeable lenses. These are much more prone to drying out than normal lenses, so I'd have to use clear lensed cycling glasses anyway.

[alan]

.

As for contacts - shop around guys. I have some nifty new(ish) monthly ones that I can wear for 5 nights before needing removal (although I take them out every night normally).

That's interesting.Any more detail such as
where from

[Ernst]

Just returned from our much needed post LEL holiday.

The volunteers I had at Dalkeith were fantastic. A big thank you to all of them.

For 2013 lessons need to be learnt from the poor pre-ride organisation. A great deal of valuable advice and offers to undertake tasks like printing rider labels was  given to the organiser but was ignored.

LEL 2009 was a great success due to the dedication and patience of the volunteers at the controls and the good initial publicity at PBP 07.

The route doesn't need to stay the same. Suitable possible controls need to be found before the route decided. Army cadet centers, outdoor centers, scout camps may be good options. Please let us know of any suitable options. Local knowledge is invaluable.
If there is going to be a 2013 LEL planning needs to start now and the stresses of the past few months be used as a learning curve.

Sonya

[Grandad]

Mist or fog however is an utter nightmare as it creates lots of small droplets on the lenses which are much harder to see through and don't clear with the wind.

Even worse when it's freezing fog.  At the bottom of a long descent on one such January day I had a film of ice on each lens.

[Assasin]

All that effort at Dalkeith and still enough energy for a Mega Conga at The SF.  Good to see that the IM factor didn't get you down for too long.

See you for the real debrief & the next LEL for some more Red.

[3peaker]

I have come into all these threads 2 weeks after the event and have been plugging my time with a couple 200s, writing an article and loading my pics on to flikr.  A few general thoughts observations based on 3 PBPs and now 2 LELs.

Tracking: If the technology is available and we have the competence within AUK to activate a cost effective system, then we should go for it.  What extra cost on the entry?  Many Sportives now use electronic ankle/wrist tags, so a system say a necklace tag should be an easy option with a Bar Code reader.  On the subject of tracing the ‘lost’ rider, this has to be the most difficult situation.  In my own case, I took about 10½ between EDM and Alstone.  At 2300hrs, I was cold, wet and hypothermic, arriving in Longtown in a deluge.  Miracles of miracles when a local in The Graham Arms (Arabella and I had gone in to warm up and me to have a coffee) offered us floor space.  When we hit the road again at 4.00am, we were well-rested, warm, had eaten and ready for the climb to Alstone.  Had we continued for Alstone without Jack’s help, I hesitate to consider how we might have fayred.  We, as riders responsible for our welfare, made decisions that supported our survival.  We did not feel responsible to Controls either EDM or Alstone.  On a dry warm night (a la PBP?) I would willingly have slept by the roadside but conditions dictated otherwise.  However, treating the ride as inter-Control legs makes a great deal of sense, with ‘whoever might need to know’ able to determine which stretch of road you are likely to be on.

GPS:  I took my GPS but found all but one of the downloads had disappeared.  Then my recharge system did not, so I left all that at Thorne (my single Bag drop).  My back-up of laminated (totally waterproof!) routesheet and maps worked perfectly.

Food: Not to worry about cash and having whatever you fancy was a great success.  Counter service where you actually see what goes on to your plate is preferable to a tick list and wondering if it is all right to ask for more.  What I would have liked is more mash and gravy and spaghetti in tomato sauce to replace beans.

Prestige Event:  LEL has clearly grown out of its ‘just a long(er) event’ image into an Internationally recognised feature event.  So, just as we target PBP and identify its organisation as something special, so LEL requires the internal (AUK) recognition, that matches this prestige.  But has the local LEL committee developed to recognise the expectation of the expected clientel?

Pre-Qualification:  So, it has worked without; I think we are on tricky ground with no knowledge of rider experience, pre event. How many starters expected to fail because they had never even done an overnight ride?  A pre-event SR may be a tall order but surely proof of some endurance challenge should be indicated.  When I attempted my first PBP in 1995, the turn at Brest was a venture into my body’s unknown.  I respect Helen’s discussion and admire your/her determination to finish LEL but seeing your/her bike position, it was certainly lacking the ‘comfort’ angle and probably aggravated for your/her considerable discomfort.  A SR/600 within 2/3yrs may be worth considering.  We are talking about an extreme event here not an extended 200!


Registration: I was appalled that making the effort to arrive at my nominated slot, ‘The Organisation’ was totally out of Sync with the population.  Only the glorious weather saved the day.

Route:  The start was a shambles.  Despite individual organiser efforts you cannot stop the Rail network here from completely ruining every concept of timing.  I turn up at 0845 for a 0900 start and do not cross the rail track until 0907!!!

So is Lee Valley YH the sensible start area? But if it is re-routed, then accommodation logistics comes in.

Expansion/Route:  If the numbers grow, then the route may need to shift to more accommodating (larger) towns, or use larger (or additional) facilities within existing Controls.  In the Borders, Canonbie and Hawick could be neatly linked by B6357to avoid the A7 and Hawick to Traquair by B711.  I think Traquair and the Innerleithen route have a charm that is worth preserving; but the climb to Eskdalemuir with limited facilities and a heavily forested ride could be bettered.  From the Lincoln area Market Rasen (with the Lincoln Wolds) could lead to the Humber Bridge and Beverley (Minster town and close to military base at Leconfield (my 1st RAF posting!)).

Here is a brief summary of a first Autoroute plot:

Gamlingay 62k; Thurlby 150k; Washingborough 219k; Market Rasen 253k; (Humber Br) Beverley 311k; Coxwold 385k; M Tyas 433k; Alstone 513k; Canonbie 570k; Hawick 620k; Dalkeith 706k.

Inter-connecting routes look fairly quiet and it still includes some great scenery.  What I see is moderately sized towns like Beverley and Hawick being used as ‘Preferred’ and ‘Bag Drop’ sleep centres, using Sports Centre/School Halls canteens as they are conveniently located at ~300k intervals which makes the 5-day ride a natural 4x300k +1x200k.  The other ‘traditional’ and ‘homely’ Controls do not need to change much from this year apart from ‘beefing up’ accommodation.  After all, my plan for this year hit the popular bottle-necks, with a touch of weather-forced adjustment preventing early arrival at Alstone.  By identified major sleep zones would concentrate the majority; it might though mean waves of riders; but then isn’t that what happens on PBP?  Folk would still arrive early, leave early or arrive late, leave late to develop a stagger.  Also ‘Bag Drops’ to these ‘Sleep Centres’ could be included free in the Entry Fee, so would encourage their use.

A big plus, IMHO, is that this ‘mod’ introduces just 2 major sleep centres and would cater for large overnight numbers, leaving the existing village bases with simple improvements, yet retaining the experience gained by great crews and available for the riders on faster schedules.  Also, with an unknown enhancement to number of riders, a commitment to 2 large centres would not risk too much of the LEL budget.

I apologise for making this chat lengthy but I feel, as a 3xPBPer and 2xLELer, I have something to offer to the future of this great ride.

SteveP

[Greenbank]

Very useful input...

In the Borders, Canonbie and Hawick could be neatly linked by B6357to avoid the A7 and Hawick to Traquair by B711.  I think Traquair and the Innerleithen route have a charm that is worth preserving; but the climb to Eskdalemuir with limited facilities and a heavily forested ride could be bettered.  From the Lincoln area Market Rasen (with the Lincoln Wolds) could lead to the Humber Bridge and Beverley (Minster town and close to military base at Leconfield (my 1st RAF posting!)).

Canonbie -> Claygate -> Langholm was the route I took back in March (it was, at the time, very close to the suggested route as I still think Canonbie was listed as a control).

There's not much I can say about this section (lying) other than it was, without doubt, by far, the hardest bit of the entire ride. It may be a short section but it eclipsed anything on the rest of LEL. Several short and very sharp climbs. Between Canonbie and Claygate is just bonkers. So much so that if it had remained the official route for LEL I was still planning on taking the main road to Longtown and the A7 up to Langholm which takes a much flatter route West of the river.

I've done the B6357 on the Border Raid and seem to remember it being a little lumpy, but nothing out of the ordinary. It's ok, but I'd definitely rate the B709 as the more scenic route (probably in both senses of the word). The B709, to me, is one of the road that defines LEL.

[Panoramix]

Very interesting!

I would like the route to use the Humber bridge. I think that this one was a bit too good at dodging towns, it would be very good to add some touristic interest to LEL. I actually enjoyed going through Lincoln and adding features like the Humber bridge would definitely score point for me. Navigating across cities can be difficult but signposting like it was done in Lincoln solves the issue. Also I enjoyed Alston and Yad Moss

For me the Scottish bit was the highlight, but as I don't know the alternative, I can't comment.

We should concentrate more on the route and less on the organisation itself as it has now been well discussed!