Author Topic: The TT Thread  (Read 210307 times)

mattc

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2008, 02:28:57 pm »
Correction E3/10 24.04.08 30'15


Typical climber's time ;)
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2008, 02:44:13 pm »
Southend Wheelers are doing their TT around Steeple on Wed evenings.

Not so easy for me to get to that one. I can ride to the Shaftesbury events from home in Chelmsford (actually it would be from Braintree if I factor in the ride from work to home as well), which should be a decent enough warm-up.

A 10 is just an eyeballs-out, grimace-and-bear-it, flat-out ride. Get as low as you can. Use interval training to get as fast as you can.

I've been practising going flat-out (or near flat-out) for 10 miles of a 20 mile circuit from home - and can maintain a 20mph average. I've not been looking forward to taking up interval training, but I guess it's got to be done if I want to go faster! I don't have a turbo trainer so all training will have to be done on the roads.

IanDG

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2008, 02:50:09 pm »
A local club (Shaftesbury) has started their weekly 10 mile TT series near to me and I'm thinking of entering a few this year. Will be a new experience for me as I've not raced at all before. I'll be riding fixed wheel and I'm confident of going under half an hour. Anyone got any tips for me? Like, what sort of training should I be doing? should I invest in some aero-bars? Etc.


A 10 is just an eyeballs-out, grimace-and-bear-it, flat-out ride. Get as low as you can. Use interval training to get as fast as you can.

IMO There is slightly more to it than that - that approach will get you 'a good ride' but you can also do specialised intervals and progress through out the season building up to one 'big ride' with better results

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2008, 02:53:40 pm »
Southend Wheelers are doing their TT around Steeple on Wed evenings.

Not so easy for me to get to that one. I can ride to the Shaftesbury events from home in Chelmsford (actually it would be from Braintree if I factor in the ride from work to home as well), which should be a decent enough warm-up.

A 10 is just an eyeballs-out, grimace-and-bear-it, flat-out ride. Get as low as you can. Use interval training to get as fast as you can.

I've been practising going flat-out (or near flat-out) for 10 miles of a 20 mile circuit from home - and can maintain a 20mph average. I've not been looking forward to taking up interval training, but I guess it's got to be done if I want to go faster! I don't have a turbo trainer so all training will have to be done on the roads.

Maybe we should reconnaissance the Shaftesbury route at the weekend? The Spesh may have to make its first appearance of the year if the weather is good  :thumbsup:
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Maladict

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2008, 02:54:19 pm »
Correction E3/10 24.04.08 30'15


Typical climber's time ;)

No doubt after I report on the Fred Whitton you will say "Typical sprinter's time  ;)::-)

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2008, 03:02:57 pm »
A local club (Shaftesbury) has started their weekly 10 mile TT series near to me and I'm thinking of entering a few this year. Will be a new experience for me as I've not raced at all before. I'll be riding fixed wheel and I'm confident of going under half an hour. Anyone got any tips for me? Like, what sort of training should I be doing? should I invest in some aero-bars? Etc.

Having returned to TTing last summer after 40+ years, I fitted aero-bars after the 1st five events, I reckon they knocked around 30secs of my 10 time. (26:25 at the moment). They seem to be the gizmo that gives the biggest improvement in speed and they're relatively inexpensive.
Practice with them before the event, and come back on the drops when cornering, going over bumby surfaces or honking - until you get used to them as bike handling is very much reduced.  Good Luck :)

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2008, 03:12:41 pm »
Maybe we should reconnaissance the Shaftesbury route at the weekend? The Spesh may have to make its first appearance of the year if the weather is good  :thumbsup:

I've already printed off the route, so let's rec. it!

I fitted aero-bars after the 1st five events, I reckon they knocked around 30secs of my 10 time. They seem to be the gizmo that gives the biggest improvement in speed and they're relatively inexpensive.

Sounds like my kind of gizmo then, I'll keep an eye on the classifieds...

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #57 on: April 29, 2008, 04:05:31 pm »
...aero-bars...
Practice with them before the event, and come back on the drops when cornering, going over bumby surfaces or honking - until you get used to them as bike handling is very much reduced.  Good Luck :)

They are interesting on a tandem. It took me a while to gain confidence enough to corner on them.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2008, 09:41:57 pm »
Bitterly cold and a stiff easterly tonight.

30:19  :(

Not so good.

My speedo packed up just before the start so I had no nagometer.

..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2008, 09:03:11 am »
I'll second the use of tri-bars. I race fixed mainly and that got me going faster for £25; I'm still not 100% comfortable with my setup but I keep doing 27' on a 72'' gear on a difficult course (bump; uneven road surface; junctions, inc. one with a give-way; wind!). I need to increase my gear to 75'' I think. And to find the time to go racing. This thread may help!
Frenchie - Train à Grande Vitesse

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #60 on: May 01, 2008, 09:17:26 am »


A 10 is just an eyeballs-out, grimace-and-bear-it, flat-out ride. Get as low as you can. Use interval training to get as fast as you can.

IMO There is slightly more to it than that - that approach will get you 'a good ride' but you can also do specialised intervals and progress through out the season building up to one 'big ride' with better results

Oh yes, I agree. I was just talking about the ride itself. As someone much faster than I once said to me, "There's no 'pacing yourself' on a 10, it's just flat-out on the pain barrier all the way."

Actually, that's a good way of judging how well you did - if it didn't hurt you weren't trying hard enough.

IanDG

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #61 on: May 01, 2008, 09:28:04 am »

I agree with


A 10 is just an eyeballs-out, grimace-and-bear-it, flat-out ride. Get as low as you can. Use interval training to get as fast as you can.

IMO There is slightly more to it than that - that approach will get you 'a good ride' but you can also do specialised intervals and progress through out the season building up to one 'big ride' with better results

Oh yes, I agree. I was just talking about the ride itself. As someone much faster than I once said to me, "There's no 'pacing yourself' on a 10, it's just flat-out on the pain barrier all the way."

Actually, that's a good way of judging how well you did - if it didn't hurt you weren't trying hard enough.

Aah, understand.

 'if it didn't hurt....'   definitely, at the finish your legs should be burning and you should be 'coughing youe guts up'   ;D

David Martin

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #62 on: May 01, 2008, 10:07:09 am »

 'if it didn't hurt....'   definitely, at the finish your legs should be burning and you should be 'coughing youe guts up'   ;D

That sounds familiar. I was absolutely wasted. The most depressing thing is that there is a speed sign just before the village (finish is just after the village up a hill - about 200m further than you think it will be.) You see teh cars flashing past and getting speeds of over the limit (40). Then it picks you up. And you feel knackered, and the speed is dismal.

I'll need to get a new speedo before next time - just hurting isn't enough of a guide, speed is the key.

..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #63 on: May 01, 2008, 10:18:44 am »
...As someone much faster than I once said to me, "There's no 'pacing yourself' on a 10, it's just flat-out on the pain barrier all the way."

I didn't find that the fastest strategy; physiologically, depth and frequency of breathing requires ~3mins to adjust to demand, so I think that during the first three minutes of a 10 it is unproductive to try and go flat out. After all, it is still an endurance, rather than a sprint, event - compare it with athletics, where the closest equivalent is something between 5,000 and 10,000m.

Having said that, the people who are able to chat happily 5 minutes after finishing are the ones who don't know how to "get it all out". I couldn't speak anything but rubbish for a good half hour after a 10.
Profit or planet?

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #64 on: May 01, 2008, 10:22:29 am »
I'll need to get a new speedo before next time - just hurting isn't enough of a guide, speed is the key.

A heart rate monitor would be a better guide, and an (expensive) power meter better still... speed is too dependent on conditions. You can be doing a very good ride (relative to other competitors) and still not going very fast. Or you can be flying along with a tailwind, and not trying hard enough. A HRM tells you if you are slacking.
Profit or planet?

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #65 on: May 01, 2008, 10:49:06 am »
I'll need to get a new speedo before next time - just hurting isn't enough of a guide, speed is the key.

A heart rate monitor would be a better guide, and an (expensive) power meter better still... speed is too dependent on conditions. You can be doing a very good ride (relative to other competitors) and still not going very fast. Or you can be flying along with a tailwind, and not trying hard enough. A HRM tells you if you are slacking.

Mine doesn't - it just pegs out at far too high ;-)

A speedo is useful for gettting effective use of power - am I doing better riding this gear, or the other gear with a different cadence?

Actually, I wasn't doing too badly (for me) last night till about the 7 mile mark and then it went kind of downhill performance wise.

Fastest time was 21:54 on the night. I normally home to be within 8 mins of the fastest, ideally 7.

..d

"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #66 on: May 01, 2008, 11:26:03 am »
I'll need to get a new speedo before next time - just hurting isn't enough of a guide, speed is the key.

A heart rate monitor would be a better guide, and an (expensive) power meter better still... speed is too dependent on conditions. You can be doing a very good ride (relative to other competitors) and still not going very fast. Or you can be flying along with a tailwind, and not trying hard enough. A HRM tells you if you are slacking.

I have mixed feelings regarding HRMs. They certainly tell you when your not trying, but as you get older and begin to feel less invinciple, they frighten you to death.
The highest maximum HR (using the most opimistic formulae I can find) for may age (64) is 170 BPM. During a "10" my HR will be around 160 - 165 peaking at 175BPM, I have to fight the temptation to throttle back at 170BPM for fear of blowing the engine.
I'm doing my first TT of the season this evening (Old Ports 12.6 mls) - if it's not p*ssing down. :)

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #67 on: May 01, 2008, 11:36:21 am »
...The highest maximum HR (using the most opimistic formulae I can find) for may age (64) is 170 BPM. During a "10" my HR will be around 160 - 165 peaking at 175BPM, I have to fight the temptation to throttle back at 170BPM for fear of blowing the engine.
I'm doing my first TT of the season this evening (Old Ports 12.6 mls) - if it's not p*ssing down. :)

Don't worry too much - predictive formulae for max HR are valid for entire populations, but aren't much use for individuals. Your real HRmax is probably ~180 (it's difficult to achieve in a flat TT, no matter how hard you try).

And reaching HRmax isn't (assuming you don't have a whole collection of risk factors) anything to be afraid of - otherwise exercise physiologists could never have collected the large volumes of data from which the various predictive formulae were worked out.
Profit or planet?

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #68 on: May 01, 2008, 11:40:16 am »
Thanks for that - It'll be a PB tonight then. If you don't see any more of me feel very guilty ;D

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #69 on: May 01, 2008, 11:47:42 am »
(Cross posts with harrumph). HRmax misconceptions are a pet-peeve for me. :)

I have mixed feelings regarding HRMs. They certainly tell you when your not trying, but as you get older and begin to feel less invinciple, they frighten you to death.
The highest maximum HR (using the most opimistic formulae I can find) for may age (64) is 170 BPM. During a "10" my HR will be around 160 - 165 peaking at 175BPM, I have to fight the temptation to throttle back at 170BPM for fear of blowing the engine.

The formulae are there to estimate your HRmax in the absence of proper data. Your HRmax is not some magical limit that if you go over you'll die, it's simply the maximum HR you personally can achieve.

If you have no other data to draw from then use a formula (pick one, any one) and use that figure. If you see a higher figure on your HRM then start using that. If you want a more accurate HRmax test then there are plenty to find with google, you just have to get off the bike and do a bit of running (ideally on a treadmill) and get ready to visit the vomitorium.

I can get at least 15bpm over what most formulae suggest for my age. I'm 31 and I've seen 206bpm playing 5-a-side football, but I can only get it up to about 195bpm whilst cycling. It doesn't concern me at all as I'm perfectly healthy, and I've discussed this with doctors who showed no concern whatsoever.

The only thing to remember is that HRmax does trend down at about 1bpm (although it will vary between individuals) so it's best to re-evaluate your HRmax each year.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #70 on: May 01, 2008, 11:54:04 am »
...HRmax does trend down at about 1bpm (although it will vary between individuals) so it's best to re-evaluate your HRmax each year.

Nooooooo! Never again!! Pleeeeeease!!!  :sick:



PS the downward trend with age is less marked in people who maintain regular high-intensity exercise, which might account in part for BornAgainCyclist's higher-than-predicted number at age 64

Anyway, good luck tonight, BAC! (though we know it's not got much to do with luck, don't we...)
Profit or planet?

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2008, 03:01:05 pm »
I'll need to get a new speedo before next time - just hurting isn't enough of a guide, speed is the key.

A heart rate monitor would be a better guide, and an (expensive) power meter better still... speed is too dependent on conditions. You can be doing a very good ride (relative to other competitors) and still not going very fast. Or you can be flying along with a tailwind, and not trying hard enough. A HRM tells you if you are slacking.

 A heart rate monitor can help you to try harder when it's easier - down hill or with a chuff wind (as you say) but it can also help you to not over cook it when it's hard, for instance up a hill. Some people try very hard uphill, but then have very little left to capitalise on the descent.

Paul Manning rode the Duo Normande with Chris Boardman (and they still have course record) He reckoned that Boardman was going up the climbs within his pulse zone, but went down the other side at the same effort.

As further evidence, in my younger days I once rode a "mountian" time trial (well, we all have something murky in our pasts). There were two timed climbs, both of which I was in the slowest 5 riders up. I finished in the top ten overall. (and before you ask there was a field of over 80 riders).

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2008, 03:02:25 pm »
I'll need to get a new speedo before next time - just hurting isn't enough of a guide, speed is the key.

A heart rate monitor would be a better guide, and an (expensive) power meter better still... speed is too dependent on conditions. You can be doing a very good ride (relative to other competitors) and still not going very fast. Or you can be flying along with a tailwind, and not trying hard enough. A HRM tells you if you are slacking.

..and a powermeter is an even better slacking detector. A HRM gives you a few 10s of seconds before it starts showing your drop in effort - a powermeter will tell you in 5s or less. It's very revealing, but quite a hard taskmaster too.

One of the good things I've found about using a powertap is that headwinds are no-longer so dispiriting. I can see if I'm maintaining the power and that is the important thing.

Neil

Maladict

Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2008, 03:42:54 pm »
Won't be riding tonight unfortunately.  :(

mattc

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Re: The TT Thread
« Reply #74 on: May 01, 2008, 03:57:52 pm »
Paul Manning rode the Duo Normande with Chris Boardman (and they still have course record) He reckoned that Boardman was going up the climbs within his pulse zone, but went down the other side at the same effort.
Then Boardman was not a student of fluid dynamics. Because of the rise in friction with v^2, once you're freewheeling downhill at, say 30mph, it requires a lot of power to go 1mph quicker.
At least SOME of that power would be better spent where you're only doing 15mph flat out at your "average" effort.

Of course, if you overdo this you'll cook yourself, but there must be a compromise somewhere in between.
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles