Author Topic: Ethical milk  (Read 23454 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2009, 10:51:38 am »
Yak milk is pink. Which needn't bother you, but may disconcert you.
Dairy is my downfall.  I know it's a terrible industry and a vicious trade, but I do love yoghurt & cheese.

I was vegan for a while, and even managed tea without milk for a long while (it stains your mugs faster :( ).  But I'd eat cheese butties every day if I could.  And that's an unacceptable vanity.

On the other hand, I never felt the need for soy milk.  There wasn't anything I wanted to use it for.

What I'm saying is that I don't really think there's a solution to your problem, Julian </rambling drivel>

I am a hypocrite. I know it.
Oh dear. I agree with you on everything here except that I actually prefer, and always have done, tea without milk. And we're all hypocrites anyway.

A goat would be good, but I don't know where you'd keep it unless you have a garden.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2009, 04:06:11 pm »
I am very partial to human milk and can't see why we cannot get the business going. There are millions of underused milkable ladies in the UK alone - before we even begin to think about the global herd - who could be providing us with a nutritious and delicious dairy resource. 
If one thinks about it drinking the milk of animals is a bit wierd. Surely lovely ladymilk is the way forward. The new cheeses alone could be fantastic!

Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2009, 05:12:30 pm »
Yak milk is pink. Which needn't bother you, but may disconcert you.

Oh dear. I agree with you on everything here except that I actually prefer, and always have done, tea without milk. And we're all hypocrites anyway.

A goat would be good, but I don't know where you'd keep it unless you have a garden.

If you did have a goat you wouldn't have a garden for long!!

Really Ancien

Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2009, 07:06:31 pm »
Bull calves are a problem in a dairy herd. The first time the heifers are in calf it will be to a beef bull as the calves are smaller, these cross bred calves can be fattened on grass without too much expensive feed. The subsequent pregnancies will be to a dairy bull in a pedigree herd, so as to produce more cows for milking. The male calves will be difficult to fatten if they are Friesan, impossible if Holstein. This thread on the Farmers Weekly site shows the problem.
   Bull calves cull - Talking Point Forum - FWispace
 It also provides the solution, which is sexed semen. That way you don't get surplus male calves which might cost money to dispose of.
Tesco were concerned enough about the problem to subsidise sexed semen for their suppliers, http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2008/05/16/110489/Subsidised-sexed-semen-on-offer-for-Tesco-milk-suppliers.htm


Damon.

Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2009, 08:41:57 pm »
I am very partial to human milk and can't see why we cannot get the business going. There are millions of underused milkable ladies in the UK alone - before we even begin to think about the global herd - who could be providing us with a nutritious and delicious dairy resource. 
If one thinks about it drinking the milk of animals is a bit wierd. Surely lovely ladymilk is the way forward. The new cheeses alone could be fantastic!
:thumbsup:

Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2009, 08:34:58 am »
Bull calves are a problem in a dairy herd. The first time the heifers are in calf it will be to a beef bull as the calves are smaller, these cross bred calves can be fattened on grass without too much expensive feed. The subsequent pregnancies will be to a dairy bull in a pedigree herd, so as to produce more cows for milking. The male calves will be difficult to fatten if they are Friesan, impossible if Holstein. This thread on the Farmers Weekly site shows the problem.
   Bull calves cull - Talking Point Forum - FWispace
 It also provides the solution, which is sexed semen. That way you don't get surplus male calves which might cost money to dispose of.
Tesco were concerned enough about the problem to subsidise sexed semen for their suppliers,
   Subsidised sexed semen on offer for Tesco milk suppliers - 16/05/2008 - Farmers Weekly



Damon.


Agree, well almost!

Beef bull calves are usually bigger, not smaller (although calf size at birth is largely mother determined) Some farmers used to (and some still) use an Aberdeen Angus bull on heifers as the calves tend to be a little more compact, and more "treamlined". Ease of birth is a recorded feature for beef bulls for whom semen can be bought.

The main reasons why beef bulls are used for heifers are:

1) Heifers tend to be kept outside and are often run with a bull in the field. Beef bulls are quieter and are less expensive in general.

2)Heifers don't have a performance record. Dairy bulls are generally used on the best performing cows, and once the bull's features can be matched with the cow's. High genetic value dairy bull semen is pricey.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2009, 10:54:24 am »
I don't really agree- people have been talking about 'having to shoot dairy bull calves' since I started milking cows in 1985. I've never worked on a UK farm where they've done it. It's a bit of a myth. You might not make anything from a holstein bull calf but if it's dam milks well you haven't lost anything either. There's always a market, just not a good price. Their conformation is dreadful and you'll never make great beef animals from them but they fatten up sufficiently well for supermarket mince.

Heifers wont yet have a performance record but are the most advanced genetics in your herd so should be put to a dairy bull, or you're wasting an opportunity.
High genetic value dairy bull semen is pricier than cheap beef semen, but you can get a straw for a fiver. We used to synchronise the heifers, use a relatively cheap dairy bull to AI them and then use Angus to mop up anything left over.

None of this will persuade anyone that UK dairying is in any way ethical...

Perhaps if I admit I sang to my bovine lovelies to keep them happy, and spent many a happy hour massaging udders to keep 'em healthy?
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2009, 10:59:34 am »
It's hard to say if anything is 'ethical' or not.

It's a sliding scale, and we decide where we put our flag on that continuum.

For me, I recognise that dairy farming has elements I find unsettling, and that excess dairy consumption is an issue for my dietary health.

So I'm cutting down now.  Though I had milk on my cereal this morning (see what I mean about a sliding scale?) :-[
Getting there...

urban_biker

  • " . . .we all ended up here and like lads in the back of a Nova we sort of egged each other on...."
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Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2009, 11:10:12 am »
I am very partial to human milk and can't see why we cannot get the business going. There are millions of underused milkable ladies in the UK alone - before we even begin to think about the global herd - who could be providing us with a nutritious and delicious dairy resource. 
If one thinks about it drinking the milk of animals is a bit wierd. Surely lovely ladymilk is the way forward. The new cheeses alone could be fantastic!

ROFL  ;D
Owner of a languishing Langster

Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2009, 06:05:07 pm »
To: Dairy buyer Waitrose.

'Sourced Farmers who share our values' is Waitrose proposition and we wholly agree - that is why Waitrose is the supermarket we have selected to launch our new ethical milk brand Yumi Mumi!

Yumi Mumi! is a wholly natural premium milk brand with a big difference - the Yumi Mumis themselves! Our great team of local Yumi Mumis are set to reinvent the traditionbal milkmaid for the modern ethical age. No animals at all are harmed in our unique gentle handmilking process! (Special promotion offer is a trip to one of the many milkparlours where lucky Yumi Mumi drinkers can try their hand at milking too!)

With skimmed, full milk and a range of delightful soft cheeses for the discerning palate Yumi Mumi is set to become the choice for the growing number of consumers concerned by animal welfare or even just those guys and girls who like something a little bit more 'original' - for this really is the  original milk!

What nicer way to round of a fine dinner than fragrant 'Yumi Mumi Brie'...mmmmmm, delicious.

Our packaging has unrivalled shelf impact featuring our 'Yumi Mumi of the month'  - generously proportioned and brimming with milky goodness in her ample churns. We will be bringing new drinkers into the milk category for sure with this high impact offer. And what could be more ethical than traceability of the milk right 'back to the nipple' as we say here! Our special 'Daddy's home!' squirt-top sports style bottle is a surefire winner with the guys every time ( microwaveable with warmflo feature). 

Yumi Mumi is a community supporting, equal opportunities business and we are offering attractive employment to women who might otherwise be left at home looking after the kids - its a win for all of society!

We look forward to meeting you for a sampling meeting and a successful launch in your new flagship Westfield store. Yumi Mumi!

Hummers

  • It is all about the taste.
Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2009, 08:45:15 am »
 ;D

Brilliant.


However, is it me but am I right in thinking that this topic is three pages in and no one has suggested Julian try Man Milk?

Just thought I'd ask.

H

Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2009, 09:01:26 am »
Just when I thought this can't now get dragged any further down, up steps Hummers with another superb effort. Well done that man.
[Quote/]Adrian, you're living proof that bandwidth is far too cheap.[/Quote]

Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2009, 09:38:35 am »

Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2009, 09:14:31 am »
Seriously though drinking animal milk is a bit pervy isn't it? It is not natural at all - distinctly queasy-making if one thinks about it.
Imagine the scene when mrs caveman enters the cave to find mr caveman taking a furtive curious affectionate suck on the family cow.  I bet he got a right bashing for that act of bestial infidelity. 'But its lovely and will be quite normal in the future' would not have cut much slack with his engaged spouse I don't think.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2009, 09:47:44 am »
...his engaged spouse ...


So they were polygamous, then? ;)
Getting there...

Valiant

  • aka Sam
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Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2009, 09:58:37 am »
I am very partial to human milk and can't see why we cannot get the business going. There are millions of underused milkable ladies in the UK alone - before we even begin to think about the global herd - who could be providing us with a nutritious and delicious dairy resource. 
If one thinks about it drinking the milk of animals is a bit wierd. Surely lovely ladymilk is the way forward. The new cheeses alone could be fantastic!
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.

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Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2009, 10:03:22 am »
...his engaged spouse ...


So they were polygamous, then? ;)

Oh you pedantophile.

Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2009, 10:04:08 am »
Seriously though drinking animal milk is a bit pervy isn't it? It is not natural at all - distinctly queasy-making if one thinks about it.
Imagine the scene when mrs caveman enters the cave to find mr caveman taking a furtive curious affectionate suck on the family cow.  I bet he got a right bashing for that act of bestial infidelity. 'But its lovely and will be quite normal in the future' would not have cut much slack with his engaged spouse I don't think.


Drinking cows milk probably arose as a response to environmental stress. It's genetically a Northern European tying and an African nomadic tribe thing. For Northern Europeans it helped cope with a lack of vitamin D due to less sunlight than the environment that humans evolved in and for nomadic African tribes it is a huge source of their protein. It's a recent adaptation though, we only got the genes (if your ancestry is one of those two groups) about 7000 years ago. If you don't have the genetic adaptation then don't drink milk as it will make you  :sick:
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2010, 11:22:14 pm »

Rhys W

  • I'm single, bilingual
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Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2010, 11:29:15 pm »
I've said it before and I'll say it again - that early hunter-gatherer who saw a cow and thought "I'll squeeze those big dangly pink things and drink what comes out!" has a lot to answer for. Funny how so many people get squeamish about human milk in comparison.

I don't think I've ever tried it, but squeezing some beans and calling it milk because it is a white liquid is pushing your luck.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2010, 11:46:14 pm »
If you're referring to soya milk. It's not nice. Oat based ones are better. It's just a very thin porridge. :)

Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2010, 11:52:57 pm »
If you learn to enjoy soya milk as soya milk then you'll be fine. In China/HK you can have it hot or cold, sweet or salty.
You can use the mushed up beans to bulk up your meat too.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2010, 11:54:56 pm »
I'm put off by the correlation between high tofu consumption and male brain shrinkage. However, that might be specific to tofu.

Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2010, 02:49:32 pm »
So how would you list the below in order of being most ethical?
Pork, chicken, beef, lamb, tin of tuna fish, tin of mackerel, cod from the chippy, cheese or whey powder mixed with milk. Which are all where I get most of my protien from.

Gandalf

  • Each snowflake in an avalanche pleads not guilty
Re: Ethical milk
« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2010, 05:06:05 pm »
So how would you list the below in order of being most ethical?
Pork, chicken, beef, lamb, tin of tuna fish, tin of mackerel, cod from the chippy, cheese or whey powder mixed with milk. Which are all where I get most of my protien from.

I know I'm going to get slaughtered for this but here goes anyway, what the heck.

From my POV as one of those weirdo, undernourished vegans your question is only really answerable if you are prepared to indulge in speciesism. 

Suffice to say that I can draw no distinction between the consumption of animal flesh or the consumption of dairy products, which some would argue involve as much barbarity as meat production. YMMV.

Normally at this point I get accused of being an over sentimental and ignorant 'Townie' who fails to understand the 'ways' of the countryside.

Either that or someone who works in the animal derived food industry will assure me that the enslavement and killing of numerous other species is all done in the best possible taste and is merely part of the 'natural order'.