DIY Studded tyres

[teethgrinder]

They're done:

You have to be carefull of any gaffa tape that is rucked. Your tryes move as the wheel rotates and eventualy, anything that has a hard edge, even a bit of gaffa tape that isn't stuck down could eventualy wear a hole in the tube.
I reckon Nutty had the right idea with his tyre liners, but I'd prefer to do it without spending if I can get away with it.
If I ever get started that is...

[nuttycyclist]

ok,  more test riding this weekend.  I haven't a computer on this bike but reckon I'm nearing the 100 miles now.

Yesterday was just pure looney fun.  Saw some friends (walking) who expressed amazement that I was out cycling, the main road had a dusting of settling snow,  On leaving them I said "oh wow, that road looks fun" (pure compressed snow) and stood up and sprinted to the far end.

Met another friend in his 4x4 later, polished white snow outside his house where he was just parking.  he said "I was wondering how a bike could stay upright in this".  I just said "there's loads of grip" popped a wheelie and rode away, pulled a tight u-turn then locked the wheels on skidding to a halt in front of him; as rogerzilla said the studs seems to stop the skidding wheel from washing out and it just skips forwards.

Maybe I should have let on to them my secret in staying upright  


Today's riding wasn't as good.  Still fine and better than any previous winter riding, but the temperature was higher and the cars had churned a lot of the white ice up into the equivalent of a slush puppy.    Worse was where idiotic householders had cleared their drives and the road outside with salt, making a real slushy messy section in amongst the nice snowy road.  On those sections there were times that the front wheel wiped out sideways, but then gripped and recovered.

I think that on those  particular sections my usual "winter tyres" (MTB with good tread) would be pretty good too, but these DIY Studded tyres weren't actually that much worse.

Off roading has been good (I got lost in the woods last night), but there was a bit of wheelspin on some sections where there was deep wet mud under the snow, or I was crossing fallen branches.


I might well repeat this experiment next year, unless I buy proper tyres in the summer sales.   If I do then I'll be getting some brand new tyres with aggressive tread, for snow, slush and mud, and then add the screws to them carefully; rather than just using old "rubbish" stored in the garage.

[rogerzilla]

Just had a go with the back tyre studded as well.  There is fresh snow falling and a light coating on the side roads.  Basically the studs work on anything hard but, as others have said, moderately-packed snow where the tyres can break through the crust is a bit iffy because you lose directional control, a bit like being stuck in tramlines.  It takes a quick response and some hard steering to regain control.  It's easy enough up to about 10mph, then it suddenly goes Pete Tong.  Wider tyres would be more effective but wouldn't fit in my mudguards.

Riding up a steep hill in firm snow on a 69" gear is out, not because of a lack of grip but because of a lack of horsepower    I did, however, ride down a flight of steps where the snow has been compressed into ice and it was as if there were no ice at all  

[simonp]

Those of us who simply bought studded tyres before we needed them were describing all these handling characteristics last year.   

Admittedly I've been mostly not using them for about 6 years. 

[Russell]

Hubgearfreak just posted up this link on CC:-

http://www.supatracks.com/pdfs/bestgrip-screw-in-ice-studs.pdf

main site is this

Supatracks UK » Best-Grip, Best Grip screw in ice studs, UK sales of Best-Grip ice studs, Best-Grip screw in tyre studs for sale, UK sales of tyre studs

can't see any prices but they do studs for all sorts of tyres including bike ones. There's only the one suitable for bikes, first in the column of the PDF as it requires the least amount of tread for insertion, 5mm's, all the rest need more. So they go in from the outside and you can buy a bit to use on a drill or power driver.

Could turn Charlottes 2.5hours into a half hour job, might still need to line the inside of the tyre, just in case, depends on how thick your knobbly bits are.

Alastair

If you get a reply from them let me know I might be interested in sharing an order with you.

Russell

[MacB]

Well, I researched further yesterday and the 1000 model, per 100 with fitting tool, was $100 in the US, but sold out. Got a reply from UK this morning and they too are sold out of this option. He did suggest the 1100 model, 5.9mm tread depth required, but it's 50p per stud, tool is free per 100 studs or £4.99 otherwise and p&p is £3.50. He doesn't verify, but I assume the 1000 model is a similar price, £53.50 for 100 studs doesn't make this a cost effective exercise.

I'm replying back re prices, see what bulk discounts could be had, if we made a group purchase. How many studs do people think are needed per tyre, ie what sort of numbers would we want each? I'd been thinking a store of 500 studs would have been nice, but not at £250

[Charlotte]

Based on my recent experience, you're going to want at least sixty studs per tyre depending on the pattern you use.  For that money, you'd do better buying ready made tyres.

[Russell]

50p per stud

Ouch

Their pdf reccomends 30 per tyre minimum.

I see that Schwalbe make the Winter tyre in a 406 size but I bet it's not available anywhere in the UK!

[nuttycyclist]

First flat this morning 

And it would have to be the sodding back wheel that took me half an hour in the dry kitchen to fit the tyre to 

And I remembered that the toolkit had 700x23C tubes, not 26x2" 

I decided that as the bike shop was "only round the corner" I'd walk there for a new tube, rather than spend an hour sitting in the snow trying to get the tyre off/on and glueing a patch.



I hate walking.  5 mins on the bike turned into half an hour of walking.  Got hot.  Hat/gloves/coat went in the pannier.


£8 later and I was ready to carry on.   I am really embarrassed that I had to pay somebody to change an inner tube 

But I think it money well spent.  Erik really struggled, and that's a job he does day in day out.



Looking at the inside of the tyre, the screw heads were visible bulges in the Duck Tape, despite the slime shield.  The hole in the inner tube was a pin prick about 45 degrees off the vertical.  I'd been expecting a cut from the tape, but this was a tiny prick.  Whether it was from a screw head I can't confirm, but as these are old perished thin tyres it could easily have been a shard of glass/thorn/other.



It was also interesting that Erik didn't think that the snow-stud tyres he's running are good enough for this weather.  He said he's had a few slips and slides and would recommend the ice-stud if I was to buy any.  Considering the price difference, I'm glad that I went down the route of DIY instead of paying out for a tyre that he says he's had slipping on ice.

[MacB]

Well, I'm waiting to find out if we can reach a 10p per stud pricepoint and, if so, how big the order would need to be I did point out to them that the high end Nokians and Schwalbes come with 240 studs each for under £40 a tyre.

The only benefit to this, over ready made tyres, is that you can put them in/take them out when you want, no need to swap tyres or wheels.

[nuttycyclist]

The only benefit to this, over ready made tyres, is that you can put them in/take them out when you want, no need to swap tyres or wheels.

I thought that re car winter tyres.  When I researched it though I found that the studs could only be fitted to car tyres IF they HADN'T been driven.

If a car has been driven then dirt gets into the holes and prevents the studs seating properly.  Will it be the same re these bicycle tyres?

[MacB]

The only benefit to this, over ready made tyres, is that you can put them in/take them out when you want, no need to swap tyres or wheels.

I thought that re car winter tyres.  When I researched it though I found that the studs could only be fitted to car tyres IF they HADN'T been driven.

If a car has been driven then dirt gets into the holes and prevents the studs seating properly.  Will it be the same re these bicycle tyres?

The US website just says you're meant to clean out the stud hole before refitting. I'd guess a homebrew cotton bud type thing would do it. You'll be able to tell us though Nutty, I fondly think of you as the crash test dummy of bike fettling now

[damerell]

I wonder if this padding could take the form of a section of rubber from another tyre, say a used road slick with the beads cuts off and glued to the inside of your main tyre.  This would be tougher than gaffer tape.  

That's what I'd do. You'd have to trim the old tyre down though too, as it'll be too long to go around the inside of the tyre. An overlap will mean that the rough end overlapping will cut into the tube in time. You have to get the join spot on though

That is exactly what I did, with an old 26" (roadster) tyre I had lying around, cutting the sidewalls off. I got the join as close as I could then slaistered the area with duct tape. Fingers crossed, haven't flatted yet. The rolling resistance must be huge, though.

It makes a sort of gentle buzz as I ride along. Clearly quieter than some others.

[nuttycyclist]

Mine're getting a lot quieter now.

The screws are wearing down nicely 

[rogerzilla]

I also got a small puncture.  However, I did go to the LBS at lunchtime to buy this:

 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

which will be somewhat more effective than two layers of duck tape.

The studs are absolutely useless in deep churned-up slush/snow - only a Surly Pugsley 3.7" tyre would get through that.  And that's what all the fricking psyclepaths are covered with.  Sustainable transport my arse.

[mattc]

Just had a go with the back tyre studded as well.  There is fresh snow falling and a light coating on the side roads.  Basically the studs work on anything hard but, as others have said, moderately-packed snow where the tyres can break through the crust is a bit iffy because you lose directional control, a bit like being stuck in tramlines.  It takes a quick response and some hard steering to regain control.  It's easy enough up to about 10mph, then it suddenly goes Pete Tong.  Wider tyres would be more effective but wouldn't fit in my mudguards.

My Schwalbe Snow front combo was equally rubbish in those conditions today. I abandoned a cycle-path after, ooh, 3'?
(Fortunately most roads were clear-but-wet, and most off-road was still packed snow. Untouched soft snow was sort of rideable, just very hard work!)

The cheapy knobbly on the back was slipping a bit, but that wasn't a problem. Both tyres are around 2", so no, wider doesn't help!

[Charlotte]

I've just fitted my new tyres and gone for a quick spin round the block, hunting out icy patches which haven't thawed out yet.

My Word 

It's like riding a frikkin' tractor.  The noise is quite terrifying in it's sheer awesome.  I couldn't lock the back wheel up - wherever I gave it a handful.

Plz to SNO?

[rogerzilla]

It wouldn't do to run over any small animals or people's feet, that's true.

[andygates]

It's like riding a frikkin' tractor.  The noise is quite terrifying in it's sheer awesome. 

Good, innit?   

[Andrew Br]

It wouldn't do to run over any small animals or people's feet, that's true.

Spikes or no spikes, I'd still try to avoid this....................... 

[nuttycyclist]

I've just fitted my new tyres and gone for a quick spin round the block, hunting out icy patches which haven't thawed out yet.

My Word 

It's like riding a frikkin' tractor.  The noise is quite terrifying in it's sheer awesome.  I couldn't lock the back wheel up - wherever I gave it a handful.

Plz to SNO?

     Now do you understand the fun I've had all week 

Now my screws are wearing down (I've done mostly gritted tarmac commutes) the noise is less but the ice / snow traction is still good.

It's just the frigging 2 inches of slush on the cyclepaths that can't be dealt with easily.

[nuttycyclist]

Those of us who simply bought studded tyres before we needed them were describing all these handling characteristics last year.   

Admittedly I've been mostly not using them for about 6 years. 

I just think that it's impressive that a homebrew tyre can handle in the same way as the proper ones.

And as I posted earlier, it's possible that my tyres are handling better than proper ones in the conditions we've had here.

[simonp]

Your studs are much longer. The ones on commercial tyres are only a few mm. So you might have more grip in certain situations. We seem to have most trouble in the same conditions: slush. Unfortunately cicumstances have stopped me cycling much this past week.

It'll be interesting to see how long the diy studs last. I've yet to notice any wear on my nokians.

[nuttycyclist]

I've had rapid wear, but they were stupidly long.

I'm planning on not using them for a while (dependant on the test crossing of the road tomorrow) as most of my commute is now pure tarmac.


The test will be once we get the next SNO dumping and I use them again.



Looking forwards to next winter, I'm toying with buying proper tyres with aggressive tread (as I used to like) and then screwing them.  Can you get carbide screws?

[Russell]

I've just received a reply by Bohle in response to my query regarding the availablity of Maraathon Winters in 20" size and they are available - I now have to decide whether it's worth it!  My current problem is that of deep slush as others have noted above.  They won't help with that so will it be worth it?