Author Topic: CRB Checks  (Read 9454 times)

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
CRB Checks
« on: January 23, 2010, 10:25:18 am »
As a Bikeability instructor I tend to carry my CRB check around with me as schools sometimes ask to see it and also occasionally to photocopy it. I have no problem with this but it occurs to me that their request may be against data protection rules. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


Speshact

  • Charlie
Re: CRB Checks
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2010, 11:54:02 am »
Unless you are employed/contracted directly by the school I see no reason why you should need to show your CRB at all.

If you are employed to deliver the service in schools by the council then it should have obtained/checked your CRB and schools can check with the council if they wish to.

If you are sub-contracted by a company contracted to deliver training by the council, then again that company should have seen your CRB and be able to confirm to the school if requested. This would be part of the service contracted and checked by the council.

So, why not show your CRB? IIRC, a teacher has the choice to show it to someone who asks to see it. The employer has their own copy of the CRB and isn't allowed to show it to anyone.
Why is this? IIRC, the CRB shows any convictions etc. the person has had. An instructor may, quite reasonably, not wish to broadcast to their local school teacher (who,after all, is not the person making the employment decision) that they were done for possession of drugs 5 years ago.

Of course, if 9 out of 10 instructors will show their CRB, then the tenth who won't appears weird and is likely to be assumed to have something to hide. Better then that no-one does.

Secondly, unless you are showing proper photo id (passport/driving licence) with your CRB cert how does the school know you are the person whose name is on the cert? In fact, better by far for the school to ask to see the photo id than the CRB.


Re: CRB Checks
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2010, 01:03:11 pm »
Erm, it is plain wierd.

Was your CRB done by Bikeability?

In theory, a CRB isn't transferrable (which is bloody stupid).

No, it isn't against data protection rules - they just have to tell you what data records they keep of you. By asking you face-to-face, they are doing that.

I would have expected that whatever organisation did your CRB (and arranged you to come and do the training) to have told the school that you are CRB checked.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: CRB Checks
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 01:31:37 pm »
CRB is done by the company that employs me and I would not be allowed to work without a satisfactory check. However individual schools, who know next to nothing about the parent company, do ask to see it sometimes. As I said above, I don't have a problem with this but wondered about the legal situation if anyone did object.

Speshact's response was very helpful and chimes in with my thoughts. I just wonder what would happen if an instructor refused to show their check (even if it's clean) - if the school can refuse for them to work there. Which would be a bit of a problem!
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


Re: CRB Checks
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2010, 02:07:15 pm »
Your employer is required to keep the personal data it holds about you secure, and that includes when it passes your information to another company, for which it should have your consent. It does not transfer it's responsibility for the security of your data when it passes it to another company.

A record of your offences, proven or alleged, is deemed "sensitive personal data" under the Data Protection Act. As such, there are additional stipulations for its processing (over and above what is merely "personal data"), which includes that you must have given your explicit consent to the data held and how it is used i.e. signed authorisation.

In your position, I would refer any organisation enquiring about your CRB status to my employer who should be able to confirm whatever is required, in accordance with the contract between them and whoever is asking. By taking yourself out of the equation, life gets easier.

If you provide your CRB details to an organisation, it should be with your explicit (signed) consent. The school may be taking on more responsibility than it realises by asking for a copy from you as an individual.

Re: CRB Checks
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2010, 11:34:15 am »
CRB is done by the company that employs me and I would not be allowed to work without a satisfactory check. However individual schools, who know next to nothing about the parent company, do ask to see it sometimes. As I said above, I don't have a problem with this but wondered about the legal situation if anyone did object.

Speshact's response was very helpful and chimes in with my thoughts. I just wonder what would happen if an instructor refused to show their check (even if it's clean) - if the school can refuse for them to work there. Which would be a bit of a problem!

Responsibility for the check is indeed up to the company who employs you (or arranges for your presence). The normal thing is for the school to contact your company and ask for your CRB number. Liability then rests with your employers for the CRB being valid.

Refusal or inability to provide the CRB number would be valid grounds for not letting someone work in a school.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

spen666

Re: CRB Checks
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2010, 11:38:33 am »
I fail to see how a schoolasking to see your CRB check can have any relevance to the Data Protection Act.

The school are not holding the data.

Re: CRB Checks
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2010, 11:40:35 am »
I think it is the taking a photocopy that the OP is asking about.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

spen666

Re: CRB Checks
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2010, 11:43:24 am »
I think it is the taking a photocopy that the OP is asking about.

Ah right!

Again I can't see any breach of DPA.

OP is voluntarily providing the information to school. As long as school only use it for the purpose they obtained it, there cannot be any breach of the DPA


This is a situation where people imagine they have rights that don't exist. Its like the people who try to stop you taking pictures in a public place

Or those who try to claim you need the permissionof the parent to publish a picture that includes their child in it

Re: CRB Checks
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2010, 07:06:54 pm »
I think it is the taking a photocopy that the OP is asking about.

Ah right!

Again I can't see any breach of DPA.

OP is voluntarily providing the information to school. As long as school only use it for the purpose they obtained it, there cannot be any breach of the DPA


That is a bit simplistic. The DPA has a number of principles that apply to data held by organisations about individuals. One of which, for example, is that it has to be kept secure. Using it only for the purposes it was obtained does not in itself ensure compliance with the Act. As I said above, sensitive personal data has additional stipulations which also make things a little more complex.

Re: CRB Checks
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2010, 08:07:33 pm »
It's a bit like the Geneva Convention and Prisoners Of War - schools are entitled to ask for your CRB check reference number, but no more.  They have no right to see the certificate itself, and there's no way they ought to ask for a photocopy.  Ofsted wants the schools to have documentary proof that you have a CRB check, and asking you to provide a copy is an easy way to do this, but the schools have no right to do it.

"Don't tell him your name, Pike"
Riding a Dahon Jetstream P9 folder, a Decathlon Fitness 3 flat-barred road bike, a Claud Butler Cape Wrath MTB, a Moulton-based tandem, a TW 'Bents recumbent trike, and a Scott CR1 Comp.

Re: CRB Checks
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2010, 11:28:37 am »
From an outsiders point of view I have no idea what a CRB check certificate looks like, but I bet if you gave me a photocopy I could knock up something convincing in my name in half an hour using Photoshop.

Looking at a piece of paper is not checking someone's CRB status.