Author Topic: So, how hard is PBP?  (Read 53273 times)

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #25 on: 29 January, 2010, 02:05:44 pm »
Here's some advice from a PBP failure.

In 2007, I got ill before the start, foolishly started anyway and decided to pack after about 200k, but had to crawl on til 300k in order to get a lift back(but still got there way before Bridget and mattc  ;)).  Without the illness or other mishaps I'm reasonably sure I would have got round in the time, but....

.... I only did an SR in preparation.  Not the easiest SR (BC and BCM scenic), granted.  After riding a lot last year, I've got to say that now I regard myself as having been woefully underprepared for PBP.  Just as Charlotte says, not even a 600k will necessarily show up bike set-up issues that could end your attempt. My fitness was crap compared to successive years, and I also only had the SR plus two other 200s the previous year as experience.  I didn't really have my eating sorted, nor have enough experience to avoid pre-ride nerves.

I very much doubt I'll have another go as I'd rather ride somewhere spectacular (I find boredom more of a challenge than hills) and I don't like riding in huge groups, but if I did, I'd be going for an SR this year plus at least another 2000k of 200s and 300s, and most likely the same again in the first half of next year. That way, I'd have a good chance of enjoying it

Martin

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #26 on: 29 January, 2010, 02:20:34 pm »
don't forget also that if it's twice as far as your longest ride you may encounter problems with your body that you will not encounter on a 600. Not much you can do about them if they happen but it's worth knowing what can and does go wrong.

apparently the two most common reasons for packing are knees and tummy upsets. But on top of that you may get;

ankles
neck (a lot of riders finish with all sorts of contraptions in order to keep their neck straight)
feet (look at the videos of bleeding feet near the finish) and also trench foot in the wet
bums (not just saddle sores, boils etc)
inability to balance (In saw quite a few riders listing on the last day)

and remember that the medical tents are there specifically for the health of the riders not to help them finish; unless it's a quick fix a visit to the medics can often result in your card being taken off you pronto. I know of one rider who passed out as soon as he got into the med room; I think they gave him so many seconds to come round otherwise it was curtains (fortunately he did, and finished)


Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #27 on: 29 January, 2010, 02:29:52 pm »
Good points here. Scraping round your first 600 will probably not enable a 'good' ride on PBP. You'll not miraculously recover in the few hours you have at Brest ready to ride for another 40 hours. You should be finishing 600s comfortably with little pain that isn't getting worse. Time/speed is less important, that is something that can be worked on by wasting less time stationary.

vorsprung

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Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #28 on: 29 January, 2010, 02:41:02 pm »

apparently the two most common reasons for packing are knees and tummy upsets. But on top of that you may get;

ankles
neck (a lot of riders finish with all sorts of contraptions in order to keep their neck straight)
feet (look at the videos of bleeding feet near the finish) and also trench foot in the wet
bums (not just saddle sores, boils etc)
inability to balance (In saw quite a few riders listing on the last day)


VORSPRUNGS GUIDE TO AVOIDING COMMON PBP PROBLEMS

'As an ancien of PBP people often ask me: "Jamie, you are such an unassuming, attractive, regular guy: I thought people that do PBP are demented sadists?  How did you do it?" and this is my answer'

1) ankles.  Rub Voltarol on them
2) neck.  Get a bike that fits.  Do core exercises for the year before PBP
3) feet.  Take lots of socks.  Get shoes that fit.   Cut toenails.*
4) bums.  Get a bike that fits.  Wear shorts with padding.  Use Sudocreme
5) inability to balance.  Avoid Calvados


* thanks to Mick on the Baxters Coach for that one

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #29 on: 29 January, 2010, 02:55:51 pm »
Hence my attempt to conquer the Mille this year - If I can do this in time then I will do PBP, the terrain is tougher, people fewer and less facilities. It will give me a good idea of what will happen to me after 600k...tbh 600 is like looking at the moom at the mo, once I get the all clear from the Quack I'll be doing lots of what's been already posted. The other +point of the Mille being earlier entry to PBP, of course..

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #30 on: 29 January, 2010, 03:26:57 pm »
At least if there is one thing I won't have to worry about, it is my derriere (being a deviant 'velo speciale' rider).

I love to point out to 'bent riders that there was a high dropout rate for VS category on PBP 2005. 

That's all I have to say.  An instant flame war will erupt now.  My favourite excuses for why this should be are

* bents are nearer the ground so we get wetter
* a lot of the bents used in PBP were not special "long distance" bents
* PBP is so very hilly that it hurts our little legs
* Je suis le maire

I think there is quite a simple explanation, and it is the same reason why recumbents are notoriously bad at climbing hills. Apart from the odd healthy non-conformist who chooses a recumbent for speed (ahem), almost everybody who has one got it because they are older and often working around some kind of chronic condition. Controversial perhaps, but it is true of a majority of recumbent riders I've spoken to!

Certainly it can't be because they're wetter, as my lowracer is quite low and yet considerably drier than my Pearson (especially, good lord, the feet!).

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #31 on: 29 January, 2010, 03:33:53 pm »
I found PBP 2007 really easy.

I just cycled for 88 hours almost non-stop with a total of 3 hours sleep, never got above wet and cold, suffered mild hyperthermia and a mini nervous breakdown then went home.

That said, I'd jump at the chance of doing it again......   :thumbsup:

Mr Larrington

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Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #32 on: 29 January, 2010, 03:42:49 pm »
I think the main reason I was so slow is coz the bike weighs a bleedin' ton.  As Justine subsequently noted, it was like him carrying a complete extra bike.  I have my eye on this drool object.

But I didn't suffer from wet feet ;D
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Tigerrr

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Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #33 on: 29 January, 2010, 04:17:28 pm »
I think the main reason I was so slow is coz the bike weighs a bleedin' ton.  As Justine subsequently noted, it was like him carrying a complete extra bike.  I have my eye on this drool object.

But I didn't suffer from wet feet ;D
I admired your optimism in taking that beast on such a ride - I only ever did one 200 on my heavy one. But even with a light one I never made it to the start of the PBP. Chapeau mr mayor.
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Martin

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #34 on: 29 January, 2010, 05:03:09 pm »
despite all my medical predictions of doom it's worth noting that the majority of the UK DNF's I know did so before Brest. A lot of those were anciennes too with nothing to prove. The UK also had a much higher finish rate (90% compared with nearer 70 overall)

don't dwell on what could go wrong; preparation and equipment can help prevent it.

one thing I found very useful were some of those sticky guaze swabs on my sit bones changed daily. And scrupulous hygeine.

I think the main reason I was so slow is coz the bike weighs a bleedin' ton. 

knowing Mr Larrington was ahead and what sort of bike he had I did chase down many similar looking contraptions without success, it was pretty easy on those loooong drags

(I think we finally crossed at Loudeac on the way back without meeting)

Julian

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Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #35 on: 29 January, 2010, 05:26:27 pm »
I found PBP 2007 moderately hard work but nothing unmanageable.

But then I was driving a car.

mattc

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Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #36 on: 29 January, 2010, 05:36:22 pm »
Here's some advice from a PBP failure.

In 2007, I got ill before the start, foolishly started anyway and decided to pack after about 200k, but had to crawl on til 300k in order to get a lift back(but still got there way before Bridget and mattc  ;)).
I'm sure on a good day you could have won.

Quote
and I don't like riding in huge groups,
Let's be sensible about this - it would be pretty easy to avoid huge groups if you really wanted to!
[I think the novelty value would have worn  off after a day or so, so I know what you mean. But out to Mortagne was a blast.]
Has never ridden RAAM
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Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #37 on: 29 January, 2010, 06:29:02 pm »
PBP, like LEL is long enough to have a training effect by the end. There's pleasure to be had in pushing a big gear on those lovely flat roads having got through all those tedious climbs. The difficult bit is knowing how you will react to an evening start if you are in the 90 hour group.

Damon.

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #38 on: 29 January, 2010, 06:58:25 pm »
I failed to finish.
My knee blew out at around 300km.
It didn't hurt especially, but I could not put any power through it and was unable to walk.

After a night's sleep I turned around and had to ride another 219km back to meet my wife for a lift home.

I think my reasons for failing were that the bike was simply not quite the right shape for me. Despite this I was comfortable enough with respect to bum, and shoulders neck, but I had terrible problems with my hands throughout my season. A new bike seems to have sorted this.

I also took too long a break between my last ride and the start of PBP. I should have carried on doing audaxes right up to PBP.

Food was also a problem for me, since I found the food just did not suit what i wanted to eat. I have since spent a lot of effort learning to understand what I want to eat on long rides.
I'd also advise people to practice foraging from supermarkets so you know what you can make a meal from! This might sound mad/obvious, but when you're tired and hungry, you can find yourself very frustrated trying to find something to eat!

Datameister

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Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #39 on: 29 January, 2010, 11:06:26 pm »
the common wisdom is that if you can do a non flat UK 600 (like the ... Cambrian ..) you can do PBP.

Well, I managed the cambrian last year in the rain, but had to succumb to 10 minutes sleep in a bus shelter. LEL was a different proposition as I slept every night (including the first at Lincoln from the 2pm start)

The concept of completing the 600 in 40 hours should not therefore worry me, but it does. I guess many others are in the same boat (or even 'on the same bike'). Therefore, I suspect that the first sleeping facilities will be Eskdalemuir squared, or even cubed. Does the concept of a bivvy bag (taken from a bag drop subsequently dumped at next bag drop) work at all, and would finding a patch of flat verge/field for this be better than struggling with the sleeping accomodation provided? I'm keen but, being a 115 hour LEL finisher, worry I will be struggling with the time limit.

Martin

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #40 on: 30 January, 2010, 08:07:00 am »
Therefore, I suspect that the first sleeping facilities will be Eskdalemuir squared, or even cubed.

realistically the first place most people stop is Loudeac at 450km irrespective of when they start.  It's quite intimidating when you get there; there are dropped bags everywhere presumably for the US riders.  The catering and control building (the only public indoor bit) is tiny and any available floor space is taken; most of the seats are occupied by space blanket-wrapped chysalises. There's a dormitory with what looks like a huge queue but apparently you don't have to wait that long. It's very easy to lose the rest of your group which was a major worry for me. There are various nooks and crannies outside undercover which become filled with more space blankets. It's also hard to find both your own bike and those of your ride mates the next "morning"

and it's the same on the way back as it fits in well with the long day trip to Brest and back. Add rain and cold and it gets even more inviting. I think Loudeac is where the majority of the alternative vehicles / tents / campervans etc congregate. Some very lucky riders know people who live nearby.

When you leave on the way back you feel you.ve broken the back of the ride. It's a great feeling.

Hummers

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Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #41 on: 30 January, 2010, 08:34:54 am »
I feel that m'fellow members attempts to answer your question may have complicated things somewhat and as they are highly subjective, whilst fascinating (no doubt), are completely irrelevant.

Did you ask "Friend, tell me. How hard did you find PBP?"

No, I think not.

In fact you only want to know how hard you will find it and are not in the least bit interested in your fellow wheelman's trials and tribulations.

Well, as it happens, your luck is in.

I have a simple but trusty mathematic equation that relates to you and your capabilities alone and not some slack jawed jelly bellied cafe loving lothario who is too lazy to race yet basks in the glory of being able to balance on two wheels for periods long enough to cook an egg on a relatively mild August day.

So here we go.

Firstly, you have to complete a 200k on a particularly cold and dreary day after at least 6 weeks off the bike, preferably in the months of December, January or February. It doesn't have to be a hilly event, just a 200k on which you feel that the joy has gone and the world might be a better place if you stayed in bed.

Done that?

Good.

Now I need you to measure this ride's 'hardness' of a scale of 1 to 10. If it helps, imagine that a 1 is the discomfort you feel on the roof of your mouth after eating a bag of Everton mints whereas a 10 is the discomfort you feel after being caught by your mother in law in the midst of trying to perform an act of oral self-love in her potting shed,  at the reception after her son's funeral.

Got that?

Good.

So let us walk through a worked example:

For the purpose of this exercise, we'll say your first 200 scored a score of 7 (equates to running for the bus with a cheese grater firmly pushed down the front of your pants). Now you you need to apply the multipliers related to a tired and tested training regime.

Your next step comes with completing another 200 which on paper, is as hilly as the last.  The key performance indicator here is your finish time. For every half hour you finish earlier or later than your first ride then subract or add 1 from your first time ride hardness score. Therefore, if you finished 1 hour quicker, your hardness score would now be 5.

Repeat this for one more 200k ride. If you have a modest improvement or took the same time, subtract 1 and for each half hour quicker subtract 1.5.

For the progression to a 300,  take your final score and multiply it by 1.46. If you are back up to 10 or even over 10, then perhaps PBP is not for you. Perhaps you are not taking this seriously enough. Do you have a sedentary lifestyle where you watch other people performing manual tasks whilst you peer down at them from some soulless penthouse?

Assuming you are crept in under the '10 threshold', you should lick the adhesive strip of your 300 entry C5 envelope with alacrity but be aware; not all 300s are created equally. What you need to understand is that 300k organisers relish in your suffering. For them, the cheese grater down the front of their pants is not just for other people but is indeed, a way of life. I will refrain from naming names but can tell you this: 300k events that do not show any ascent or AAA are the most suspect and are merely there to snare the unsuspecting. Rides that are AAA graded are unashamedly harder but even within this clench of organisers, there is competition for being the most sadistic.

For this reason, your score calculator on completing a 300k will be influenced not on finish time but on the stories you can bore family and friends with afterwards. If there are are no stories and you found the whole affair rather dull, then subtract 0.5 points from your running total. But, for every amusing anecdote of heroism, stupidity, human endeavour or frailty, you can take with you to the grave, subtract 1 point.

With me so far? Excellent, nearly there but for the 400 multiply your running score by 1.7.

400s are, quite simply, the instrument of the SANTA. Sorry, the SATAN. Only a fool considers a 400 as two 200s. For the majority of us, a 400 is an exercise in sleep deprivation that sounds facinating but in reality is not really much fun at all. There are those who will say "Oh I love 400s, they are really great and a lot of my friends think so too." Be wary of these people. If they have indeed ever done a 400 they are likely to have no grip on reality and no friends. For this reason, the calculator on a 400 is not based on time or stories but on how much you would want to do three of them in a row. If, after finishing with a flourish, you are wet and panting for another, give yourself 5 points off the score, buy a Menu Master and go back to your lonely flat with only a full Bounty kitchen roll and Look Good Naked for company. If, on the other hand, you are a broken Randonneur, vowing to never trust the word of Sir Phil Chadwick again, award yourself 3 points to deduct from your running score.

For the next step up to a 600, you will need to multiply your running score by 1.6 and then check whether you have you crossed the boundary of 10.  Have you? If so, then all is not lost as completing 400s are no benchmark of being able to complete PBP. The best option here, in fact the only option here is to ignore your running score and enter any 600 that takes your fancy with the blind optimism that only a middle-aged woman bending over, wearing white slacks, loading her shopping into the hatch back whilst wearing Tena Lady breifettes can exhibit.

Now a 600 is a delight to behold and is the defining point where you may realise that you too can fly on the wings of Buzzards and that perhaps, just perhaps, you are that sort of person who has a tendency to this sort of thing. They tend to be social events and you will see many other people there who, like yourself, are as unlikely candidates for PBP as it is possible to find.  But if you start with high hopes, only to struggle over the finish line full of self doubt, then the science can help.  For any finish time over 39 hours, add 3 to your running score but subtract 1 for every hour spent sleeping in either a B&B, under a beer garden table, standing upright in a telephone box or draped over a gate. Obviously, failure to complete a 600 should be considered as something of a setback but if you finished in 36 hours or under, with or without sleep then count yourself as ready to go to Paris.

We are not over with the scoring just because we have qualified with a BRM SR series under our perineums.

If you have completed a series yet are at the point where you partner/spouse is sick with you being off every weekend and is threatening to leave then you must add 2 points to your score in the PBP year and a massive 4 points if this happens in any year previous to PBP. If you are single, subtract 2 points and count yourself lucky but spare a thought to the turmoil that those attractive or personable enough to find a mate are going through.

Now, finally we  can examine your score.

Anything less than a score of 5 then you can count yourself as being made of the right stuff to take part in PBP. Why not up the ante and have the extra fun of entering the 84 hour group? As a bonus, you get to enjoy the experience of demoralising struggling 90 hour riders by zooming past them with a cheery grunt. Or so I have heard.

With a score of 5 to 7 you are still a likely candidate but success won’t come easy. You will need to watch the time spent at controls and keep moving to the end.

With a score of 8 to 10 you are going to finish but on a wing and a prayer. Never mind though, the streets will be lined by encouraging Frenchies all helping you on your way, walking beside you and offering unintelligible words of wisdom as you teeter ever onwards away from the yawning chasm of failure to the glory that is the Arrivee.

Hope this helps.

H

Salvatore

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Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #42 on: 30 January, 2010, 09:04:06 am »
14.73

I'm out.
Quote
et avec John, excellent lecteur de road-book, on s'en est sortis sans erreur

Hummers

  • It is all about the taste.
Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #43 on: 30 January, 2010, 09:08:37 am »
14.73

I'm out.

 ::-)

This sort of comment is useless if we can't see your workings out.

You know I have had to pick you up on this before.

<edit> Are you sure you counted all your 300 related stories? Hmmmmmmmm? </edit>

H

red marley

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #44 on: 30 January, 2010, 10:07:15 am »
Hummers, you POTD-whore. :-*

border-rider

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #45 on: 30 January, 2010, 10:33:58 am »
PBP is about sleep management.  If you can plan that out and not let yourself get sleep-deprived than it's a pretty benign event.  For many people, though, the the first night on the road kills them and they never fully recover, just getting slower as the event goes on.

If you can get by on little sleep, or go fast enough to get some, it's just a ride - and not an especially tough one.

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #46 on: 30 January, 2010, 10:50:01 am »
The 0500 start in the 84 hour randoneurs group can help one manage sleep better.

Sheila Simpson arranges a couple of events with late starts. 400km starting at midday (or 1300 IIRC) and 300 starting at 2300 to allow riders to get an idea of what it's like.

border-rider

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #47 on: 30 January, 2010, 10:56:40 am »
The 0500 start in the 84 hour randoneurs group can help one manage sleep better.

yes - I always struggle with sleep deprivation, but on the 84 hour start (with some sensible decisions en route as to when to stop) it wasn't really an issue.  In 2003, on the 90 hour start,  it nearly wiped me out...

Martin

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #48 on: 30 January, 2010, 11:04:24 am »
I stopped drinking coffee and tea for 3 weeks before PBP 2007; on the 90hr start I drank gallons of coffee (proper French stuff) all the way through the first 24 hrs. it certainly did the trick.

I had a really weird feeling when I woke after about 4 hrs in Loudeac; I knew what I was doing there; I knew there were thousands of others from all over the world thee, but we weren't doing the actual ride; just spectating. It lasted for about 30 mins up the road before I realised what was going on. That was the only odd bit of the ride for me; the rest was plain as day.

Re: So, how hard is PBP?
« Reply #49 on: 30 January, 2010, 11:09:01 am »
The 0500 start in the 84 hour randoneurs group can help one manage sleep better.

yes - I always struggle with sleep deprivation, but on the 84 hour start (with some sensible decisions en route as to when to stop) it wasn't really an issue.  In 2003, on the 90 hour start,  it nearly wiped me out...
Yes. I just want to point out to newbies that they don't have to choose the tourists start (90 hours) and contend with the first night ride, the crowds the queues etc. 2007 was my first PBP and I did OK with the 84 hour ride and will certainly consider it again. I was unsure whether or not I was fast enough for that time but some other riders gave me the confidence I needed, like I said earlier, talk to anciens and listen to them. To newbies, use this year and the first half of next to learn from others, don't just ride around in your usual groups.