Starfighter

[Martin]

randomly placed on a hump somewhere in the Netherlands; seems to be a micro museum. Many years ago there was a spoof song titled "catch a falling Starfighter" did they not have a very good safety record?

I always liked the German air force liveried one, looked like What Might Have Been





ps can we have a train / plane OTG subsection pretty please  

[ScumOfTheRoad]

Centre section of the Starfighter - ie cockpit, jet inlets, wing roots, is used for the U2.
Have a look at the one in the IWM Duxford sometime.

[Wascally Weasel]

There was an entire album (by Robert Calvert): Captain Lockheed & the Starfighters.

“It would be an honour to crash in such a plane”

F-104 Starfighter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[clarion]

did they not have a very good safety record?

Are you kidding?  They were notorious for suddenly becoming one-winged planes.  ISTR the Germans had particular problems.  It was to do with the way the wings were just bolted on without a spar, IIRC, and resonance from the fuel tanks on the wingtips.  There were also handling issues.

[Really Ancien]

An NF104A nearly did for Chuck Yeager, I take we've all seen 'The Right Stuff', still probably the best sound of any aviation film.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-I5zY-4ZtkY&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/-I5zY-4ZtkY&rel=1</a>

The aircraft carrier scene is great, Jeff Goldblum and Harry Shearer in this scene.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OCEdKDQ22FI&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/OCEdKDQ22FI&rel=1</a>



Damon.

[Zoidburg]

How do get to own a Lockheed Starfighter?

Buy a field and wait.

[TimO]

It wasn't nicknamed the "Widowmaker" because of it's ability to kill the enemy.

[ScumOfTheRoad]

The Ben Rich book on the Skunkworks discusses the Starfighter. If I'm not wrong, the plane had tiny wings which were highly loaded, and optimised for high speed. It did not like landing very much, and the accidents occured in that region. I could be wrong.

[clarion]

I do a grand impersonation of a Luftwaffe Starfighter.  Remind me next time you see me

Starfighters didn't like landing.  Or taking off.  And they were prone to entering unrecoverable spins.  IIRC a new aerobatic manoeuvre was invented by a pilot trying everything he could to recover it.  He survived.

[oncemore]

"Starfighters didn't like landing.  Or taking off."

Now I'm not an aero-engineer, but this sounds like a slight design fault to me...

[Andrew Br]

"Starfighters didn't like landing.  Or taking off."

Now I'm not an aero-engineer, but this sounds like a slight design fault to me...

It's worse than that- there are issues on the bit in between.

[clarion]

Anything Chuck Yeager has a problem with has more than a slight design fault

[pcolbeck]

Great looking bird and fast though. It's one of the exceptions to the if it looks right it is right rule of aeronautical engineering.

[Really Ancien]

Anything Chuck Yeager has a problem with has more than a slight design fault

The one he ejected out of had a supplementary rocket engine and reaction thrusters. It was designed to be flown with the main engine turned off at high altitude and re-started as it descended. It was used for astronaut training,
Lockheed NF-104A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Damon.

[Tourist Tony]

The album was indeed "Captain Lockheed and the Starfighters" by my namesake, together with half of Hawkwind, the Pink Fairies, Arthur Brown and Viv Stanshall.
Oddly, at a tiny town called Thundorf an der Donau, there is a Starfighter museum.

[Mr Larrington]

G for Germany!  Also, G für Gott strafe England!  This I am enjoying.

Apparently Defence Minister Franz Josef Strauß and his party were bunged about ten million dollars by Lockheed before buying them.  Ironically, he was a pilot, and later qualified to fly jets.

[clarion]

Are you suggesting that Lockheed were involved in corruption?

[Mr Larrington]

You might think that.  I couldn't possibly comment

[Tourist Tony]

[rr]

I seem to remember that among the Guilds hacks when Mr Larrington and I were at IC there was a post of honorary starfighter pilot given to the person who most regularly did reckless things.

[clarion]

Tony, a Starfighter should probably best be kept indoors - less likely to do harm if you don't try anything reckless like flying them

[Really Ancien]

I was wondering if the F104 had much of a combat record, it may have killed more of its own pilots than adversaries. That made me wonder what the combat record of post-WW2 aircraft is. Which aircraft represent value for money and which were expensive decoration, ignoring deterrent qualities. i.e actual combat hours.

Damon.

[clarion]

ISTR the MIG-15 is the most battle-proven post-WWII aircraft.  Korea, Pakistan, Egypt, Vietnam, etc

[mrcharly-YHT]

I was wondering if the F104 had much of a combat record, it may have killed more of its own pilots than adversaries. That made me wonder what the combat record of post-WW2 aircraft is. Which aircraft represent value for money and which were expensive decoration, ignoring deterrent qualities. i.e actual combat hours.

Damon.

dogfights don't really happen much anymore.

So you'd have to go by 'did they achieve mission objective'.

It'll probably turn out to be Predators    Welcome to the new world.

[pcolbeck]

ISTR the MIG-15 is the most battle-proven post-WWII aircraft.  Korea, Pakistan, Egypt, Vietnam, etc

Possibly but the kill ratio of MIG-15s to F86 Sabres in Korea was 10:1 so the Sabre was a better package then the MIG-15. Mind you you have to factor in stuff such as tactics and training. I would think that in Korea the training was pretty much equal but the Soviet (a lot of the MIGs were flown by a Soviet pilots) and US tactics were very different.
Also these days it's often very asymmetric with fourth of fifth generation fighters coming up against older stuff that is totally outclassed. Korea was probably the last time planes of the same generation got to dogfight anything like reasonably large numbers so you could truly form an opinion on which was best.