Author Topic: Southend Cycle Town - part 2  (Read 110679 times)

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #150 on: April 08, 2010, 09:23:19 pm »
Good meeting you too Nutty. It will be interesting to see what the Echo do with the story.

Here's the interesting bit, took an ice age to upload:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Vfo37kzjHZs&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Vfo37kzjHZs&rel=1</a>

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #151 on: April 08, 2010, 09:37:22 pm »
Thanks for that video (I'll wait for Wendy et al to comment on my riding style - especially if you caught the return journey  ;D).

 00:23 - I missed it because I'd already passed the next obstruction parked in the cycle lane,  but it's good to see how you captured the oncoming cyclist having to use the pavement.

 00:30 - so it took 30 seconds before he found sufficient space in the parked cars to be able to pull out past me.


I'm glad of that viewpoint as it does show me that the carriageway is too narrow.  Watching you in my mirrors, and a few rearward observations, showed that you had quite a queue behind you too.

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #152 on: April 08, 2010, 09:43:34 pm »
The return journey isn't all that exciting, except for the central filter along the roadworks…  ;D

Hummers

  • It is all about the taste.
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #153 on: April 09, 2010, 08:34:29 am »
You wonder if they were thinking about undertaking Nutty by means of the cycle lane.   :facepalm:

The thing that occurs to me is having a one way system invariably means cars travelling at faster speeds as they are unlikely to meet someone coming in the opposite direction. Oh hold on, what if someone pulls out from the parking bay? No problems, you can always swerve to the left and drive up that nice and convenient cycle lane.  ::-)

H

P.S. From the clip, I can't see how the car has cut up Nutty.  ???


Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #154 on: April 09, 2010, 08:40:15 am »
He didn't, he cut up me.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #155 on: April 09, 2010, 09:25:20 am »
Is it illegal to park there when the lane is not finished yet? There is yet to be any signage or proper lane lines and cycle signs there so how would the driver know? Isn't that what Mr. Loophole would say?


Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #156 on: April 09, 2010, 09:53:32 am »
I honestly can't understand why they didn't just make the new "cycle lane" into additional parking spaces and makes the central parking bays into parallel parking bays thus leaving two traffic lanes (which is loads of space for cyclists) and giving the additional parking they seem to need.

Isn't this what it used to be like?
I haven't lived in Southend (Hockley really) for almost 20 years, but I can't remember the seafront being especially problematic for cyclists or drivers except for high season in summer.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #157 on: April 09, 2010, 10:04:42 am »
Is it illegal to park there when the lane is not finished yet? There is yet to be any signage or proper lane lines and cycle signs there so how would the driver know? Isn't that what Mr. Loophole would say?



Indeed.  And it's because of the lack of signage so far that I'm not getting overly angry at the drivers and pedestrians who are using the cycle track (even though it's bloomin obvious what it is and all the public are calling it a track).

Once the paint and signs go down, that's when I will be getting cross.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #158 on: April 09, 2010, 10:08:49 am »
You wonder if they were thinking about undertaking Nutty by means of the cycle lane.   :facepalm:


I think he thought he was on a dedicated lane, such as a motorway hard shoulder, and was just building up speed before joining the carriageway.

He didn't look to his right at all, just pulled away.  That's why I just calmly said "mirror" through the open window and as you'll see moved forwards and left to ensure I was out of the blind spot and into his line of sight.

It's difficult to see unless you knew it happened, but at 00:08 the footage just captures him swerving back left by a couple of inches when he jumped in surprise at my comment and "sudden" appearance.

Hummers

  • It is all about the taste.
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #159 on: April 09, 2010, 10:10:34 am »
He didn't, he cut up me.

Ah, I see now. To be fair, he probably had to do this to avoid the oncoming cyclist (on the path) and the digger illegally parked in the cycle lane.

 ;)

H

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #160 on: April 09, 2010, 10:18:14 am »
Isn't this what it used to be like?
I haven't lived in Southend (Hockley really) for almost 20 years, but I can't remember the seafront being especially problematic for cyclists or drivers except for high season in summer.


I've commuted along there daily for the last ten years.

In my opinion what was the real situation for cyclists?
Experienced cyclists used the carriageway with ample space.  You can see the old carriageway width captured on streetview last summer in traffic linky - plenty more room than captured in last night's video (and note cyclist stopped to admire the view).

Inexperienced cyclists still used the road, seemingly without issue.  A painted cycle lane might have assisted this "market group".

Families, children, and lots of others meandered along very slowly on the pavement  :facepalm: between the pedestrians.  I am not aware of any injury collisions that took place, although the letters pages of local papers do tend to have anti-pavement cycling whinges regularly.
edit captured on streetview



If any of the other locals want to add to this then please feel free, but I would agree with alexb - I don't think that the seafront has been "especially problematic for cyclists " at any time.


Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #161 on: April 09, 2010, 10:23:54 am »
He didn't, he cut up me.

Ah, I see now. To be fair, he probably had to do this to avoid the oncoming cyclist (on the path) and the digger illegally parked in the cycle lane.

 ;)

H

Or he could have used his mirrors and waited for me to pass.

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #162 on: April 09, 2010, 10:30:14 am »
Ok, my last email I copied to my local Councillor, Mike Assenheim, who is also apparently Health and Safety Champion for the Borough. here is his reply:

"Thank you for copying me into your email to Mrs Waite. I am also deeply concerned in respect of the cycle path along the Esplanade. As far as I am personally aware there was no formal consultation with the public or User Groups before this project was proceeded with. As Health & Safety Champion for the Borough I had no input to this scheme. I was able to watch some of the footage from the youtube link attachment and it is indeed very worrying.
 
I will be asking the appropriate Officers for sight of the safety audit that was done in respect of this project, and will take it forward after the coming Election.
"

He has now emailed Andrew Lewis and Andrew Meddle (not sure who they are) and CCed to Cllr Terry and Rob Tinlin, with the following:

The emails below are self explanatory, Could I please have sight of the Safety Audit that was completed in respect of the matters in the emails below and would ask who signed the project off?
 
Could I please have a reply from somebody at the earliest on this matter?



Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #163 on: April 09, 2010, 10:45:13 am »
If you do get the safety audit can you send it on?   I requested sight of it last week.

... As far as I am personally aware there was no formal consultation with the public or User Groups before this project was proceeded with....

He's correct, as wowbagger, fatbloke and myself will confirm since we sit on the cycle group that the council set up specifically to consult on these projects.  They brought the plans to us on teh 29th March.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #164 on: April 09, 2010, 10:56:10 am »
I am in awe at the awfulness of your council, on so many fronts. Sweet jeebus.

At least Mike Assenheim seems to have his head screwed on. I simply cannot believe no-one was consulted, not even internally.

Hummers

  • It is all about the taste.
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #165 on: April 09, 2010, 11:33:45 am »

Or he could have used his mirrors and waited for me to pass.

Or not been bloody parked there in the first place.

H

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #166 on: April 09, 2010, 11:44:04 am »
But he "had to" park there.

In the first seconds of the video you'll see a snack bar on the seawall to the left.  All of these along the seafront have people pulling up for a minute while they shop there.  Drivers can no longer do this without obstructing the carriageway.

It's essential that we retain trade along here (after all, when the seafront was closed for a cycle event the traders complained and got it reopened mid event, then voiced fears over the upcoming closure for teh Tour Series echo link) .

Therefore, in order to retain this passing trade it is essential for drivers to park on the cycle path.



This post was brought to you with traces of sarcasm...

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #167 on: April 09, 2010, 12:34:31 pm »
Read all abaaaart it!     Nutty is the Echo's page 3 model.  Lots of skin exposed  ;D ;D ;D


7/10.   They got a good summary of points across, misquoted me a little on "the solution" but not enough for me to worry about complaining (they've merged a few comments I made with regards various options into one 'solution')


Anna Waite is quoted as asking people to be patient while the works are completed and saying "I am confident it's safe and will be even safer when it's complete in about six weeks".

I look forwards to cycling along that path with her on a weekend in the height of the summer season.  (Yes Anna, that is an open invitation.)

Riggers

  • Mine's a pipe, er… pint!
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #168 on: April 09, 2010, 12:52:24 pm »
Er, I think you mean pushing your bike in the height of summer amongst all the 'kiss me quicks' and the "Ere, Wayne gerrawayfromtha'bleedinbikepath it's dainjerus!" types.

Or am I wrong?
Certainly never seen cycling south of Sussex

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #169 on: April 09, 2010, 12:55:05 pm »
You're completely wrong Riggers.

The quote says that the lane is safe so we'll ride from Chalkwell to Shoebury along it in the sunshine without any conflict at all.   :relevant-smiley:

<Considers getting a pipe just to improve the quality of the ride>

Riggers

  • Mine's a pipe, er… pint!
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #170 on: April 09, 2010, 12:57:47 pm »
You need to come to Brighton. Actually, you have on may an occasion haven't you?
Certainly never seen cycling south of Sussex

Clandy

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #171 on: April 09, 2010, 01:09:33 pm »
OMG look at the size of my arse!  :o  ;D

I think the report is better than I was expecting, they got the main points across. Not surprise at Cllr Waite's comment. I would also like to see her cycle along this in the summer season.

2_Flat_Erics

  • 2 Flat Eric's
Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #172 on: April 09, 2010, 04:45:29 pm »
Just read the article in the Echo.

Stop panicking everyone..

Anna Waite confirms in the last paragraph that there will be a raised white line to mark the edge of the carrigeway which will make it safe. (we knew that already Anna it's on the plans).That white line which is 0.5m inside the cycle lane will make it perfectly safe for everyone. Cyclists will not be able to wobble into the road as we all feared. Cars wont be able to drive up onto the cycle lane, and car doors will not be able to intrude into the lane at all. A 1m lane in each direction is loads of room, what were we all worrying about.

Thank goodness the design wizards in the council thought ahead and planned to add a white line to make it all safe. Lets just hope it never rains in Southend again because once those white lines get wet they become skating rinks.

I nead a cup of tea.... or better still a large whisky.
Never argue with an idot....
They just bring you down to their level
then win on experience.

2 Flat Erics You Tube Channel

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #173 on: April 09, 2010, 05:29:10 pm »
There is a shorter thread on CycleChat about this new lane and one post says that the bins, and presumably everything else, like trees and benches, should be at least one metre from the path.
The new palms might be but the blue bins look too close.

Palms arrive on Southend seafront (From Echo)

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #174 on: April 09, 2010, 05:33:22 pm »
There is a shorter thread on CycleChat about this new lane and one post says that the bins, and presumably everything else, like trees and benches, should be at least one metre from the path.
The new palms might be but the blue bins look too close.

Palms arrive on Southend seafront (From Echo)

Hhhmmmm yes...

I'm not certain about being a metre away from the track... but LTN2/08, section 8.5.3 (as quoted in my original post) says
Quote
8.5.3 In all cases where a cycle track or footway is bounded by a vertical feature such as a wall, railings or kerb, an additional allowance should be made, as the very edge of the path cannot be used
...Low upstand up to 150 mm  -  Add 200 mm
Vertical feature from 150 mm to 1.2 metres*  -  Add 250 mm...

So those close bins and seats should really be requiring adding 0.25m to the width of the path...  I missed that as I don't think the bins were shown on the plans.