Author Topic: Landis comes clean!  (Read 5187 times)

Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2010, 06:35:09 pm »

gonzo

Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2010, 09:16:01 pm »
Can we retrieve all those threads where people (some here) defended Landis ad nauseum? Blah, blah the lab made a mistake etc. etc. The evidence was overwhelming.

I feel quite sorry for the guy. I suspect that he was on something, but not what they caught him for.

Do I win a prize?

David Martin

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Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2010, 11:31:48 pm »
Actually the interview with his coach (at the time) was interesting. They had worked out that the peloton would be riding in temperatures of 110F. If he could keep his body cool he could hold them off on such a route. So they filled the team car with bottles of iced water. You don't get that much iced water in a team car by chance - it was a stupendous amount.
He then rode a constant pace - not amazingly fast but not slow. The peloton let him go (riding piano) and then couldn't catch him. What was amazing was not the performance but the differential making the performance look exceptional.

Something like 40-50 bidons of iced water poured over him during the stage..

Interesting physiology - wouldn't surprise me if Team Sky haven't looked at similar..

..d
 
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2010, 09:16:20 am »
My take on it was that he'd finally realised that he wasn't going to convince everyone that he was innocent, so he is now trying to justify his actions by saying everyone else was cheating too (the big boys made me do it).

I've no idea if everyone else was cheating or not, if they were/are cheating then I think that they should he outed.  But I'd bet that when Landis says this he's not saying it for the good of the sport.


Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2010, 09:49:56 am »
If that were the case he'd have served himself better by keeping quiet, after all look at all the dopers like Basso who have slipped quietly back into the peloton.  I don't understand his actions. Armstrong has a point about Landis's lack of credibility after taking money off people to fund his defence, although that doesn't mean Landis is lying.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2010, 09:52:39 am »
Landis is lying. Which bits are lying and which are truth are not easily distinguishable, but he is saying totally contradictory things at different times to different people.

"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Rhys W

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Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2010, 10:09:19 am »
Reading Armstrong and Bruyneel's response (and revelations how long this has harassment been going on) I get the distinct impression that Landis's mental health is not what it should be. Sad, but somehow more understandable now.

Pingu

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Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2010, 10:30:31 am »
Can we retrieve all those threads where people (some here) defended Landis ad nauseum? Blah, blah the lab made a mistake etc. etc. The evidence was overwhelming.

You still don't get it. Nobody said Landis wasn't a cheat because the lab made a mistake. The lab failed to follow their own procedures & employed dodgy techniques to get a 'positive result'. That Landis cheated was coincidental to that.

amaferanga

Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2010, 11:40:47 am »
Regardless of what Armstrong and Bruyneel claim about Landis' mental health (they're not exactly impartial in all this are they and they're not psychiatrists) the sensible thing to do here is surely to wait until Landis provides some evidence of his claims.  No evidence = no problem for Armstrong et al.  Carry on as before. 

To start attacking Landis is a little silly and to claim that he is only making these claims to publicise a book is even sillier (who would publish a book full of libellous claims?  There'll only be a book if his claims are true).  Its almost as if people have been brainwashed by the Armstrong propaganda machine....

I don't think anyone really doubts that there was and still is a big doping problem in cycling, so why would Landis have to make things up?

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2010, 11:55:25 am »
Mud sticks, silly personal vendettas, etc etc. 

Treat it all as pro-wrestling - sports entertainment - and it's a lot less stressful.
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
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David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2010, 11:57:19 am »
I don't think anyone really doubts that there was and still is a big doping problem in cycling, so why would Landis have to make things up?

I would say that there is still doping in cycling, but with the care now needed to be taken to avoid detection the problem (of risks to health) is minimised.

..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2010, 12:07:18 pm »
The problem of cheating isn't though. 

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2010, 12:12:19 pm »
The problem of cheating isn't though. 

Along with the magic spanner, the sticky bottle, the deals between teams...

..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

amaferanga

Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2010, 12:17:10 pm »
Mud sticks, silly personal vendettas, etc etc. 

Treat it all as pro-wrestling - sports entertainment - and it's a lot less stressful.

Exactly what the spin machine want people to think. 

Anyway, the motives of Landis don't matter.  If what he is saying is true and he has evidence (or others speak out and add weight to his info) its far more significant.  Could be the end of the Armstrong myth.

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2010, 12:28:49 pm »
And if not, it's more jawflap. Quite how Floydy-boy would have evidence that eluded everyone else is a matter for speculation, but we know at least that he's a brazen liar.

IMO, this all says a lot more about Landis than anyone else.  Absent evidence, that's all it will ever say.
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
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JJ

Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2010, 04:54:52 pm »
<snip>
Along with the magic spanner <snip>

Wassat then?

fuzzy (retd.) AAGE

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Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2010, 05:16:55 pm »
<snip>
Along with the magic spanner <snip>

Wassat then?

'swot the mechanic is using to fix the problem on the bike that has caused the rider to be falling off the back of the peloton. He uses it as he hangs out the window of the moving team car.  The magic spanner solves the problem whilst the rider skilfuly keeps the bike upright beside the car. Sometimes the rider may need to hang on to the team car to allow the mechanic to wield the magic spanner.
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Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2010, 06:14:57 pm »
Oh I get it Pingu. Lots of people said Landis didn't cheat. Lots and lots. Yes, some people said he probably did cheat and it wasn't proven. The thing was the whole lab thing was the usual smokescreen. He did cheat, it was proven, the lab didn't mess up, and now he's admitted it.

The thing is now, no-one cares what Landis says. Armstrong has had enough allegations in his career and he's still smiling with the vast majority of people believing he's clean.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2010, 08:24:42 pm »
He did cheat, it was proven, the lab didn't mess up, and now he's admitted it.

With all due respect, the lab did mess up, protocols were not folowed, the chain of evidence was laughable and t einterpretation and calibration of the machines was of a standard which a PhD student would be embarrassed by.

I do have a professional interest in analytical mass spectrometry. It is one of the areas in which I am an active researcher. The decision made was political, and notjustifiable on scientific grounds. That is why they published all the data (and yes I did go through it all and examine it).

There was no competent evidence that would get past proper peer review.  FOrtunately for the lab they were not beig scrutinised by scientists. The well respected scientists (including the one who designed and wrote the manual for the mass spectrometer used) who did give evidence were slamming the lap procedures.

So for those competent to look at the evidence, the lab did mess up, they fudged like crazy and that is why I am so pissed off. If you want to curtail a career you have to be whiter than white in your testing. The lab should have been beyond reproach - they clearly weren't (from the evidence presented) and relied heavily on appeal to authority.

It's nice to have your touching faith in vested interests but I prefer to analyse the science.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

JJ

Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2010, 10:19:06 pm »
Sometimes the rider may need to hang on to the team car to allow the mechanic to wield the magic spanner.
Ah, now I see.  Thanks.

Seineseeker

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Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2010, 01:31:01 am »
The email trail on Radio Shack's team page is fun to read, puts a bit of back story into Landis' grievance/revenge mission!

http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshack/news_series-emails-referenced-statement-regarding-doping-allegations/

amaferanga

Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2010, 10:01:30 am »
The email trail on Radio Shack's team page is fun to read, puts a bit of back story into Landis' grievance/revenge mission!

http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshack/news_series-emails-referenced-statement-regarding-doping-allegations/

You think these look good for LA? ???

Personally I don't care about why Landis is doing what he's doing - I care about whether or not the accusations are true.  Makes feck all difference if he's a loon.   Unfortunately the LA/McQuaid defence seems to be focused on painting Landis as some kind of deranged obsessive trying to get back at the people he see's as ruining his career.  How does McQuaid know all the allegations are untrue without even investigating them?

And why has no-one threatened legal action against Landis?  That's the standard LA response.

Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2010, 10:49:36 am »
If I had to bet my house on these allegations, I'd bet on some/all of them being true.  There is clearly a lot of money tied up in this in all quarters and on all sides...

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2010, 10:55:57 am »
Why has LA not threatened legal action?  Ask yourself why he sued the Times for posting extracts from LA Confidential in the UK, but demurred at sueing the authors in Paris.
Getting there...

Re: Landis comes clean!
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2010, 11:44:25 am »
Anyways, I reckon if they can get two of the the people Flandis named to corroborate then Armstrong is going down....

.....if they scrub his TdF victories they'll have to go a fair way down the GC list to find the winners.