Author Topic: Stupidly close pass by Bus.  (Read 3804 times)

2_Flat_Erics

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Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« on: June 02, 2010, 08:59:27 pm »
This morning I was riding from Southend to Pitsea via the A13. I was fully loaded with both rear panniers on. My normal experience is that most people tend to give a lot more room when overtaking a loaded bike, but not this morning.

Just after the lights in Hadleigh a First Bus overtook me and only missed hitting me by a couple of inches.

Video is here First bus number 40778

I could not get the Reg number off the video but the bus number is clear.

I have emailed a complaint to the bus company. Lets hope that they show the video to the driver and he learns a lesson about leaving enough room when overtaking.
Never argue with an idot....
They just bring you down to their level
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tonycollinet

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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2010, 09:08:24 pm »
Dammit that was close.

Hope you get a positive response.

2_Flat_Erics

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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2010, 09:47:59 pm »
Just got an auto responder confirming receipt of my email.. I had to laugh at the first line of their email signature.

"Follow the Injury Prevention Principles.  IF YOU CANNOT DO IT SAFELY, DON'T
DO IT."

Never argue with an idot....
They just bring you down to their level
then win on experience.

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clarion

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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2010, 09:58:36 pm »
That was ridiculous.
Getting there...

citoyen

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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2010, 11:11:04 pm »
Bus driver is a moron. That was an idiotic manoeuvre.

I must say, though, that I would have been riding further out into the lane in that situation, specifically to discourage manoeuvres like that - when you look down at your front wheel, you appear to be no more than a few inches from the white lines. It looks like the lane is pretty narrow as it doglegs through the junction, so you need to properly own it by occupying the middle of the lane, make it clear that there's only room for one vehicle at a time, even if one of those vehicles is a bike.

This is not meant as a criticism - the bus driver is the one in the wrong here, not you - but give them an inch...

Anyway, fingers crossed for an apology at the very least.

d.

Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2010, 07:07:47 am »
Excellent evidence.  A picture of your loaded bike would also have been interesting.  I guess the bus driver wanted to catch up his mate - buses like to travel in clumps.

Hope the driver gets his comeuppance and learns from it.
Sic transit and all that..

Regulator

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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2010, 09:50:36 am »
That's not just a stupid manoeuvre - but criminally stupid.

I'd report it to the police as careless driving.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

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clarion

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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2010, 09:51:38 am »
And they will do what?
Getting there...

Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2010, 09:56:33 am »
Happened to me a couple of years ago. I phoned the depot and spoke to the manager in a rational and non ranty way. I asked him to seek the opinion of another bus driver who was following me and must have seen it.

Got a letter later saying that the driver had been spoken to and that he would be given some retraining.

It's worth doing

Regulator

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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2010, 09:57:42 am »
And they will do what?

This is Essex Police rather than the Met.  Essex are (sometimes) OK - and tend to be quite hot on driving offences.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2010, 10:05:19 am »
I think it's worth filming your self riding through a couple of cones set at various spacings and then photographing the width between yourself and the cones. This would allow you to calibrate the camera's viewpoint and give a proper indication of just how close a pass actually was.
The camera angle often makes a close pass apear less close than it actually was, this would allow you to put numbers to the images.

2_Flat_Erics

  • 2 Flat Eric's
Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2010, 11:18:55 am »
Bus driver is a moron. That was an idiotic manoeuvre.

I must say, though, that I would have been riding further out into the lane in that situation, specifically to discourage manoeuvres like that - when you look down at your front wheel, you appear to be no more than a few inches from the white lines. It looks like the lane is pretty narrow as it doglegs through the junction, so you need to properly own it by occupying the middle of the lane, make it clear that there's only room for one vehicle at a time, even if one of those vehicles is a bike.

This is not meant as a criticism - the bus driver is the one in the wrong here, not you - but give them an inch...

Anyway, fingers crossed for an apology at the very least.

d.


Thanks for the comments Citizen Smudge, I do agree with them. Im still gaining experience in how best to ride in traffic, im learning more and gaining confidence all the time.

It does sometimes seem though that it does not matter where you position yourself on the road someone will still try and squeeze past.

typical case in point is R653 FHJ squeezing past just before pinch point

This was on the same morning as the bus vid about 20 mins earlier. The vid makes it look like I'm further left than I am, I rode across the white arrow on the road.

But like you say, give them an inch..... and they will take the Pi$$.
Never argue with an idot....
They just bring you down to their level
then win on experience.

2 Flat Erics You Tube Channel

2_Flat_Erics

  • 2 Flat Eric's
Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2010, 11:25:49 am »
I think it's worth filming your self riding through a couple of cones set at various spacings and then photographing the width between yourself and the cones. This would allow you to calibrate the camera's viewpoint and give a proper indication of just how close a pass actually was.
The camera angle often makes a close pass apear less close than it actually was, this would allow you to put numbers to the images.

Good idea Alex.

I have found on a few occasions when I get home and look at footage of what I thought was close on the road appeard less so on the video. I think the cam is also mounted slightly wonkey as the video tends to make it look like im riding further to the left than I actually am. A little bit of tinkering with cam postition is neaded... oh and find some road works to steal a couple of cones  ;)
Never argue with an idot....
They just bring you down to their level
then win on experience.

2 Flat Erics You Tube Channel

Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2010, 02:50:52 pm »
typical case in point is R653 FHJ squeezing past just before pinch point

Simple question, did you (a) indicate with a signal, and (b) look back just before the manoeuvre? You changed your position on the road: Mirror(or look) Signal (and look) Manoeuvre becomes even more essential on a bike than in a car.

It doesn't excuse the bad driving in the slightest, but the correct cycling technique may increase your chances of survival in a less than perfect world.

You may be interested in Cycle Training UK http://www.cycletraining.co.uk/ which  provides training for all, and even better it is mostly free, funded by local authority. And if your LA doesn't  then TFL are doing it for free at the moment, too ( https://cyclechallenge.tfl.gov.uk/support.php ) And before you pooh-pooh it and say you know too much to have training, I consider myself a safe rider with 40 years experience, and one of the longest commutes (26 miles each way, East-West London) and I've just done it and learned from it. (I will write about it on my cycling Blog soon)

Biggsy

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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2010, 03:14:19 pm »
A left signal at that point could easily have been confused for a signal to turn into the side road, and would have encouraged overtaking even more.  I hope no training course advises signalling for every change of road position regardless of circumstances.  EDIT: This is in referrence to the first video, just before the close pass.

The only thing I might have done differently was not to move so far over to the left at that point, especially to avoid getting close to the car waiting to pull out from the left.

Anyway, it's good to have got the bus number, and I hope the driver is tracked down.
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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2010, 04:05:41 pm »
Yeah, good luck with getting the driver educated.

My comment was more on the second video you post, where you pull out to the right.

On the main video, you are pulling in to the left at the time. Given that there is a left turn there, the road narrows past the junction and there is a "merge from the left" from the bus lane,  I would suggest that staying in the centre riding straight at least until past the second junction would avoid the possibility that either the bus driver or the car think you are turning left.  or try to overtake without realising how little space you have. Again, looking at the width of the lane in between the first and second junction, there is yet more reason for staying in the middle of the inside lane.

The common feature between the two videos is that in both you are changing your position in the road, and in both drivers have made dangerous moves in situations you may have been able to avoid. Again, please don't think this is either condoning the poor driving or criticising your riding, just pointing out that there  alternative riding techniques that may be safer.

(oops - just noticed that I was replying to biggsy - doh)


Biggsy

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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2010, 05:00:52 pm »
Sorry, I was only referring to the first video and haven't seen the second.
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2_Flat_Erics

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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2010, 06:32:13 pm »
Yeah, good luck with getting the driver educated.

My comment was more on the second video you post, where you pull out to the right.

On the main video, you are pulling in to the left at the time. Given that there is a left turn there, the road narrows past the junction and there is a "merge from the left" from the bus lane,  I would suggest that staying in the centre riding straight at least until past the second junction would avoid the possibility that either the bus driver or the car think you are turning left.  or try to overtake without realising how little space you have. Again, looking at the width of the lane in between the first and second junction, there is yet more reason for staying in the middle of the inside lane.

The common feature between the two videos is that in both you are changing your position in the road, and in both drivers have made dangerous moves in situations you may have been able to avoid. Again, please don't think this is either condoning the poor driving or criticising your riding, just pointing out that there  alternative riding techniques that may be safer.

(oops - just noticed that I was replying to biggsy - doh)



Constructive comments like this are always welcome. It's helpfull to have other peoples viewpoints. I think we can all be blinkered at times and not see things that others see as obvious.

Since I have had the cam there have been a couple of occasions when I have returned home, looked at the video, and seen something in a totally different light. Either I have seen something that I should not have done or seen a way in which a conflict could have been avoided in the first place. I think that my cycling and road sense in general have improved as a result but im still a long way from perfect and still learning.

With hindsight I could certainly have taken a more assertive line through the junction with the bus. This would have forced the driver to stay behind me until he could merge into the other lane. We all live and learn and I certainly treat these incidents as learning experiences.
Never argue with an idot....
They just bring you down to their level
then win on experience.

2 Flat Erics You Tube Channel

Jacomus

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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2010, 07:00:19 am »

Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2010, 08:18:45 am »
LOL Biggsy, I don't think Ham is suggesting a left signal, but a right one.  That would be very appropriate here, because it would almost certainly alter the bus driver's actions.
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Biggsy

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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2010, 08:47:52 am »
I misunderstood which video Ham was referring to.

Yes, right signals do disuade close overtakes.  I'll be getting an artificial arm to have permanently sticking out :)
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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2010, 08:58:06 am »
I think the suggestion applies well to both overtakes - the bus, and the R reg red car too.
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Biggsy

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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2010, 09:26:18 am »
A right signal would not have been correct for the first situation as the cyclist was moving left and not intending to move right.  Perhaps it would have helped despite that, but are you seriously suggesting that cyclists signal right even when they have no intention of moving right?

Sad if that's what it's come to, and ultimately it won't work if everyone did that as motorists would cotton on.
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Re: Stupidly close pass by Bus.
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2010, 09:30:12 am »
Oh, I mean a right signal before where he goes through the narrowing, just after letting the bus go in front, not where he moves left as the lanes move also.  I assume that's where Ham meant too.  It's not a right signal to change lanes, but to hold the middle of that lane, and it'll continue to affect most drivers for a little while afterwards, most likely until past the junction where the other bus passes too close.
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