Author Topic: proof of passage  (Read 3841 times)

kevinp

proof of passage
« on: June 20, 2010, 09:09:23 am »
I was wondering on my ride yesterday if you are travelling through the night and you need to get proof of passage in a particular town and yet there are no receipts in any of the cash machines ( this happened to me last night managed to get into tesco at 9.55pm) and nothing is open say after 12am, what do you do how do you prove you have been there ?

I am planning on doing a 4ookm soon which obviously means there will some riding and proof required during the night.

Re: proof of passage
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 09:12:00 am »
MMS piccie to the organiser, if you have prior agreement?  I think it would be rude t do it unless agreed in advance though.

Re: proof of passage
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2010, 10:00:08 am »
A digital photo of something recognisable in the town (now easier for the DIY organiser to check using google streetview). Your bike up against a signpost is a good one, or a town square with a clock. If you email the organiser the pictures shortly after finishing it's going to be considered unlikely that you went to the hassle of taking your bike somewhere to take a photo of it just to fake proof-of-passage. I suppose having something like a newspaper from that day (or just remember the headline of a major paper and scribble it on a piece of paper) in the shot would work too and would greatly cut down the possibility of it being staged.

It also depends on what type of control it is. Proving you were within time at an intermediate control is of less importance than proving you went through the designated place unless it's a significant turn point in the route, i.e.

Alton, Salisbury, Shaftesbury: Less of a deal if there really isn't a perfect receipt available in Salisbury as the route between Alton and Shaftesbury would go through Salisbury anyway.

Alton, Salisbury, Alton: You're going to need some good proof-of-passage for Salisbury...
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Weirdy Biker

Re: proof of passage
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2010, 10:37:03 am »
Enter the event as a GPS DIY if this is a big concern.

Beyond that, you just need to gather enough evidence as possible that will support your grovelling request to the organiser to validate your ride.  Pictures, controls from nearest available town (even if this requires a detour) etc.

These aren't guaranteed to be accepted so you need to be prepared to accept the possibility of "losing" the brevet.  But my experience is that almost all organisers adopt a helpful, reasonable approach and will generally seek to get in a position to accept the brevet (but it isn't always possible) provided you put in a bit of effort to give them something on to justify their validation on "balance of probabilities".

Completely blue sky thinking: find a CCTV, spend 5 mins dancing about on it, then request the footage through a FOI request  :P

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
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Re: proof of passage
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2010, 10:44:00 am »
Visit a police station?
When I rode an end-to-end more than half my control stamps were obtained at police stations.  One of them even offered me a bunk-up in the cells (politely declined).
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

3peaker

  • RRTY Mad 32 up
Re: proof of passage
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2010, 11:29:45 am »
I have this problem when I ride my Perms that have Info Controls (I know the answer!).  I take a photo that is obvious (town sign, obvious feature). Perms Sec validates my Perm rides, so he has seen some town signs several times with different bikes/trike. Whilst DIY and gps are receiving some chat, as a Perm Organiser, I am finding the gps solution works too, usefully backed up by the odd till rect or ATM slip.  With GPS a map plot might help as it depends on compatibility with Organiser system (check first?) if done by email.  Even 4 yrs ago I accepted a gps-mapped route to prove a Start/Finish between identified Controls; the map also confirmed the route used. When I rode an Eire Perm last year photos were the only way you could prove some Controls and for my S/F I photographed my watch on my bike, with a road sign as readable background.

What matters to me is personal integrity and honesty to ride the route.  Most of my routes are done in daylight and many would travel through an ATM'd town during the night.

SteveP
SteveP

Promoting : Cheltenham Flyer 200, Cider with Rosie 150, Character Coln 100 21 Mar 20. (Suspended 16 Mar 20 on AUK advice)

Jaded

  • The Codfather
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Re: proof of passage
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2010, 11:35:05 am »
Take a snapshot screenshot of the town from Google Street View.  ;)
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

kevinp

Re: proof of passage
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2010, 01:02:40 pm »
Thanks for all the advice everyone, I think I might have to start using the camera a bit more. I aways have the gpx on as well so there is always that to fall back on.


Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: proof of passage
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2010, 02:05:14 pm »
We used postcards for three infos whilst test riding the Faccombe Willy earlier this year. 

Martin

Re: proof of passage
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2010, 10:51:59 pm »
We used postcards for three infos whilst test riding the Faccombe Willy earlier this year. 

I never understand how these are acceptable; in  my area they will all come back as Gatwick on the stamp;

I've considered the idea of a short gps track as PoP although this is not yet approved.

mikewigley

Re: proof of passage
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2010, 09:18:08 pm »
I find that with an ATM you need to make a withdrawal for a receipt that includes the location.  It's quite possible to end up a Perm with more money in your pocket than you started with

Just asking for a mini-statement doesn't include the location, and not all withdrawal receipts do either.  And of course, you may be charged! 

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: proof of passage
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2010, 09:21:11 pm »
We used postcards for three infos whilst test riding the Faccombe Willy earlier this year. 

I never understand how these are acceptable; in  my area they will all come back as Gatwick on the stamp;

Postmarks do seem a thing of the past. Postcards dropped into country postboxes mostly come back with barcodes nowadays.

AndyH

Re: proof of passage
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2010, 09:26:26 pm »
This is probably a stupid question, but if you can prove a DIY with GPS, why not a perm ?

1st year in audax, I think iwill post this with the appropriate apology in the DIY / GPS thread as well.

Andy

Re: proof of passage
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2010, 09:35:49 pm »
MMS piccie to the organiser, if you have prior agreement?  I think it would be rude t do it unless agreed in advance though.

Especially if your name is Hummers  ;)

Tomsk

  • Fueled by cake since 1957
    • tomsk.co.uk
Re: proof of passage
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2010, 07:28:22 pm »
    I once did an emergency info control, on a calendar ride when I was running so late, the cafe control had shut [despite supposedly being open an extra hour for the event!]  - phone number and name of  pub next door [not yet open - otherwise I'd have controlled there] - obviously easily verifyable. This was accepted by the organiser, but I did take the added precaution of getting a receipt asap, in the next town. Just remembered I had to do this recently on an ECE, too!
    I don't see why any organiser should object to being a bit creative with control-finding.

3peaker

  • RRTY Mad 32 up
Re: proof of passage
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2010, 10:33:54 pm »
I think we need to remember that our rides are not Treasure Hunts, where your passing through a location is matched to a clue, cryptic or otherwise.

All we are trying to confirm is your passing through a location to prove a distance covered.

So, as long as the method of proof is clearly verifiable and in comforms with an Organisers ability to check, then we have a way forward.  With GPS, not all Organisers have equipment nor are willing to spend more time checking, so it is incumbent on riders to smooth the way first.  It only takes seconds to check ATMs or T/Rs; that may not be the case with gps, despite a journey saving the rider considerable time by not having to stop and join an ATM or shop Q.

Ultimately, we, as riders are out to enjoy a ride and gain points;  the validation process is something we have to suffer, if we want a ride to be registered. 

As an Organiser, I want riders to enjoy my routes; they are researched to know how PoPs can be obtained, rather than be gps dependent.  But it is fun and can be convenient to see someones gps plot, despite the extra work.

SteveP
SteveP

Promoting : Cheltenham Flyer 200, Cider with Rosie 150, Character Coln 100 21 Mar 20. (Suspended 16 Mar 20 on AUK advice)