Author Topic: Zebra crossing jumpers...  (Read 1869 times)

Zebra crossing jumpers...
« on: June 22, 2010, 09:43:29 am »
Just dropped mini off, and on my bike outside the school waiting for people to get across the ZC.  Said people get about 3/4 across and this happy-40-something-chappy (i.e. similar age to me) swerves between me and the peds to get through.  A bloke who'd then just crossed and I, exchanged  ::-) I said something along the lines of some people think that the law doesn't apply to them. Amazing really.

"an inordinate fondness for beetles"

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2010, 09:49:18 am »
That annoys me so much.

What does it matter if you have to stop for a few seconds to let people cross?  Really.

This morning, I was riding in a fairly fast bunch of about seven.  I paused to let a car pull out, and the others got a short way ahead.  We reached the pedestrian crossing at the top of Balham Hill (OK, not a zebra, but a pedestrian crossing clearly at red, and after a short rise, so no one's at top speed), and all six shot straight through in a phalanx, causing the crossing pedestrians to have to stop sharply.  It was so embarrassing.

Mind you, I'd have to say that I see a higher proportion of motor vehicles with the opportunity of going through a zebra doing so than I do cyclists.
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Riggers

  • Mine's a pipe, er… pint!
Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2010, 09:53:16 am »
I fear incidences like this may only get worse in the future Anders, as the intolerance of people driving vehicles seems (to my eye as well) to be on the increase, especially around points of so-called 'delay' areas like zebra crossings.

Another observation to include in this intolerance to delay, can be seen in the approach to junctions, where drivers roll up to the junction and then pull straight out not wishing to wait, and force traffic to stop and allow them out.
Certainly never seen cycling south of Sussex

Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2010, 10:01:11 am »

Mind you, I'd have to say that I see a higher proportion of motor vehicles with the opportunity of going through a zebra doing so than I do cyclists.

completely the opposite to report from here, I'm afraid. 

I'm a regular besuitted ped in central London and cars, taxis and busses almost always stop at zebra crossings but cycles very, very rarely do even when the crossing is full of people, and even at crossings with lights it's probably no better than 50/50. The temptation to shoulder-charge one of them is quite high.   One got a 'no really, after *you*' shouted at him this morning, to much amusement from the bus driver who had stopped to let me cross.

Biggsy

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Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2010, 10:06:48 am »
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Tim

Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2010, 10:09:27 am »
My first thought was of a black and white striped gonzo shaped object.

Regulator

  • Got a thing for rubber...
Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2010, 10:14:22 am »
What pisses me off even more are the motons who insist on overtaking at crossings...  >:(
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2010, 10:22:46 am »
But the advice on that in the HC is shockingly bad, and offers us no protection at all.

Even assuming those drivers would want to obey the HC of course ::-)
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ian

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Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2010, 10:38:20 am »
You take your life in your hands on my local zebra crossings here on the steppes of Croydonia. That's motor vehicles though. It's a battle of wills with the driver who will do everything in their power not to stop for a few seconds. It's a little bizarre, I have driven a car and it's not that hard to slow down to a halt for a few seconds and then resume your journey. It doesn't really qualify as exertion. The irony is, this will often happen in sight of a line of traffic, so they're not actually getting anywhere. Late at night, when the police are in bed (7pm as far as I can tell), discretion is the better part of valour and it's best not to assume that a zebra offers any protection. I did nearly have my nose removed by a motorscooter the other day on Portland Road. Idiot had stopped behind a car while I crossed, but decided that it was holding him for too long, so he scooted around the car and carried on across the crossing regardless of the fact that I was about to be occupying the same space.

Cyclist, yeah, they're annoying when they assume that zebras don't apply to them, and that the pedestrians crossing at a green man have similar properties to neutrinos, and sadly this habit does seem near ubiquitous in central London, which doesn't do much for our popularity.
!nataS pihsroW

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2010, 11:45:09 am »

Mind you, I'd have to say that I see a higher proportion of motor vehicles with the opportunity of going through a zebra doing so than I do cyclists.

completely the opposite to report from here, I'm afraid. 

I'm a regular besuitted ped in central London and cars, taxis and busses almost always stop at zebra crossings but cycles very, very rarely do even when the crossing is full of people, and even at crossings with lights it's probably no better than 50/50. The temptation to shoulder-charge one of them is quite high.   One got a 'no really, after *you*' shouted at him this morning, to much amusement from the bus driver who had stopped to let me cross.

;D  Good one.

But I think there might be an impression issue here, and I have done some rudimentary counting.

Not many cars are faced with a particular opportunity to transgress a zebra.  maybe one will, and the one behind will jump it.  Once one car has stopped, the opportunity is pretty much closed off.

But during the cycle (as it were), there may be half a dozen filtering cyclists who come to the crossing.  If two go across, it's very noticeable and, even if one stops, some idiot behind still may have the chance to transgress.

Then there's the trackstand FAILs, who keep edging forward onto the crossing, thinking they look cool, and unaware that they are garnering the disdain of all - motorist, cyclist and pedestrian alike, united in their feeling.
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Regulator

  • Got a thing for rubber...
Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2010, 11:54:17 am »
But the advice on that in the HC is shockingly bad, and offers us no protection at all.

Even assuming those drivers would want to obey the HC of course ::-)

It's also an offence for motor vehicles to overtake at a crossing (within the zigzag markings).
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2010, 12:11:51 pm »
The rules about crossings seem pretty clear to me
Pedestrian crossings (191-199) : Directgov - Travel and transport

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2010, 12:16:48 pm »
ISTR that if you check the regs referred to in 191, they only apply to not overtaking motor vehicles.  But maybe that's wrong - I'm sure it was mentioned in a discussion recently...
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Regulator

  • Got a thing for rubber...
Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2010, 12:34:20 pm »
ISTR that if you check the regs referred to in 191, they only apply to not overtaking motor vehicles.  But maybe that's wrong - I'm sure it was mentioned in a discussion recently...

A motor vehicle cannot overtake another moving motor vehicle within the zig zags...

...but it also cannot overtake any stationary vechicle within the zig zags:

Quote
"24.  - (1) Whilst any motor vehicle (in this regulation called "the approaching vehicle") or any part of it is within the limits of a controlled area and is proceeding towards the crossing, the driver of the vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it -

      (a) to pass ahead of the foremost part of any other motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction; or

      (b) to pass ahead of the foremost part of a vehicle which is stationary for the purpose of complying with regulation 23, 25 or 26."

I get annoyed by the fact that if I am stopped to allow people to cross, motons feels it is appropriate to push past, with their Mr Toad attitude that they have to be in front of the cyclist.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Spikey

Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2010, 12:41:47 pm »
If I see another cyclist or driver jumping a crossing, I find an understnding smile :) can work wonders in reassuring pedestrians that not all cyclists/drivers are ***.

Eg. this morning I had two drivers pull out in front of me within a copule of hundred yards. Imeediately after the 2nd incident, was a zebra crossing with pedestrian stepping onto the crossing. Technically the pedestrian probably should have waited, but they probably didn't see me due to taxi pulling out in front of me. Hearing my shout (aimed at taxi driver), the pedestrian stopped in alarm. An exchange of smiles worked wonders at restoring my calm.

Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2010, 12:42:35 pm »
ISTR that if you check the regs referred to in 191, they only apply to not overtaking motor vehicles.  But maybe that's wrong - I'm sure it was mentioned in a discussion recently...

A motor vehicle cannot overtake another moving motor vehicle within the zig zags...

...but it also cannot overtake any stationary vechicle within the zig zags:

Quote
"24.  - (1) Whilst any motor vehicle (in this regulation called "the approaching vehicle") or any part of it is within the limits of a controlled area and is proceeding towards the crossing, the driver of the vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it -

      (a) to pass ahead of the foremost part of any other motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction; or

      (b) to pass ahead of the foremost part of a vehicle which is stationary for the purpose of complying with regulation 23, 25 or 26."

I get annoyed by the fact that if I am stopped to allow people to cross, motons feels it is appropriate to push past, with their Mr Toad attitude that they have to be in front of the cyclist.

And that last piece is specifically not allowed by the HC.

I hadn't appreciated that if however, I am moving in the zig zag area that a motor vehicle apparently is allowed to overtake me on a bike.

On the plus side there's nothing to prevent a cyclist overtaking a motor vehicle in this area (other than good common sense of course).
Rust never sleeps

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2010, 12:43:07 pm »
Yup, that's it.  They are allowed to overtake us in the zig-zags! :o

And I get pigged off by the ones who, while not exactly overtaking, per se, pull alongside in an overtaking position (i.e. crossing the white lines).  There is often a motor vehicle in a corresponding position directly in front, causing much pulling in on cyclists (being the softest and least damaging option ::-) ).  >:(
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hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2010, 12:50:33 pm »
ISTR that if you check the regs referred to in 191, they only apply to not overtaking motor vehicles.  But maybe that's wrong - I'm sure it was mentioned in a discussion recently...

IIRC they should not overtake the leading vehicle which has given way to allow people to cross, whether motorised or not.

Further back, that's not the case.

gordon taylor

Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2010, 01:05:07 pm »
Why are we talking about cars and drivers?

The OP was about cyclists who jump crossings.

It's a nasty, bad, antisocial, arrogant habit, and being not as bad as something else, doesn't make it OK.

We should perhaps debate on how we think it can be stopped.


Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2010, 01:46:45 pm »
I hadn't appreciated that if however, I am moving in the zig zag area that a motor vehicle apparently is allowed to overtake me on a bike.

Are you sure? I once had the occasion to pass a car pulled up on the zigzags who had obviously just got a ticket (presumably for parking on the zig zags...) Just after I passed the driver pulled away and accelerated rapidly, overtaking me on the crossing. I think he was a little annoyed at being ticketed. The next thing that happened was the policeman who'd just stopped him went flying past me with siren going and pulled the driver in ahead  of me for a second time. I'd always assumed that the second offence was for overtaking on a pedestrian crossing... I suspect the driver wasn't a happy chappy - 2 offences within 100 yards.

Regulator

  • Got a thing for rubber...
Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2010, 01:48:23 pm »
Why are we talking about cars and drivers?

The OP was about cyclists who jump crossings.

It's a nasty, bad, antisocial, arrogant habit, and being not as bad as something else, doesn't make it OK.

We should perhaps debate on how we think it can be stopped.



To be fair Gordy, I don't think anyone (least of all me) was saying that because it wasn't as bad as cars then it was OK.

I don't like cyclists who abuse crossings - it simply reinforces the prejudices that motorists and pedestrians have.

If I'm crossing on foot and a cyclist tries to barge through then they'd better look out.  I have no inhibitions about pushing them out of the way - and if they fall off its tough.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2010, 01:55:24 pm »
A year or two back I challenged a cyclist who barged into a load of pedestrians on a crossing outside Reading Station (I was on foot).  I was subjected to a barrage of foul-mouthed abuse which could be broadly summarised as "you motorists are all the same"!

Jaded

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Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2010, 01:55:42 pm »
Imeediately after the 2nd incident, was a zebra crossing with pedestrian stepping onto the crossing. Technically the pedestrian probably should have waited,

Nope.

Quote
Zebra crossings. As you approach a zebra crossing
look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross
you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing

I think the major problem has been the introduction of Pelicans, which change priorities at crossings. It used to be that peds held sway. Now they largely don't - they are corralled at the side of the road for an indeterminate period of time until they are allowed to cross.

It is no wonder that they come off second best at Zebra crossings.

If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Spikey

Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2010, 02:39:11 pm »
Imeediately after the 2nd incident, was a zebra crossing with pedestrian stepping onto the crossing. Technically the pedestrian probably should have waited,
Nope.
Quote
19 Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped.
Implies that the pedestrian has a responsibility to stop as well. Without having to brake and swerve for the taxi I would have been too close to the crossing to stop comfortably, although I could have continued on the left while the pedestrian stepped onto the right hand side. Braking and swerving to avoid the taxi put me further out and slower making stopping for the pedestrian appropriate. However without the taxi, I would have been more aware of the pedestrian (less distracted by emergency accident avoidance) and may well have stopped anyway. Difficult to say.

Rhys W

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Re: Zebra crossing jumpers...
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2010, 03:30:50 pm »
I'll always stop at zebra crossings, but sometimes a pedestrian will hesitate and wave me through if there are no cars around. Then I have to tell them, "no, you go!" They often seem pleasantly surprised that a cyclist has given way, which means they expect us to go whizzing through - not good.