Author Topic: Newbie daft question...  (Read 8850 times)

Newbie daft question...
« on: July 28, 2010, 09:26:27 am »
I know that somewhere on this board will be the answers to all my question, but there is so much info it's hard for me to find, so I would be grateful for a few pointers:

Simple questions really - I bought an Edge 705, and it came with some mapping installed. The so-called user "manual" from Garmin is absolute crap - so I don't know a) what map is installed, b) where it's installed, c) how to plot routes to it and d) how to change the maps (should I want to / be it recommended by users on here to us other map sources!)

Simple questions, maybe not so simple answers. My very first GPS and I want to make the most of it.
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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2010, 08:15:29 pm »
Hiya, I just bought an Edge 705 too, and have been messing about with it some. Unless you bought a package with a specialist map included (like city navigator NT) then ur Garmin will just have the UK base map, has major A roads but not much else on it.

You seem to then have 2 options:
1. Buy an expensive map package from garmin or another reseller, the UK only version of city navigator NT will set you back £36.99 either on microSD card or as a downnload)
2. Get your hands on a free Mapsource file, this is what I did and used FREE UK and Ireland Maps Home (talkytoaster) to find the map and instructions on what to do with it.

Basically you rename your map file as GMAPSUPP.IMG  (having backed up any file with this name already from your device via My Computer), and copy it into the 'Garmin' folder on either your main device or its SD card if installed. Simply restarting the Garmin then seems to load the map just fine. I have been using my free map which is routeable without problems. I create my rides as 'courses' on bikehike.co.uk or bikeroutetoaster.com and save them as .tcx files. I then use Garmin's Training Cnetre software (free download) to import the files then upload them to my garmin. They can all be found under the 'training' menu as 'courses' then, and the number of coursepoints on the route isnt limited in the same way that trackpoints would be if you attempted to save the file as a 'route' and not a 'course'. So far I have done a 200k audax without any probems using a course.

Biggsy

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2010, 07:03:48 am »
I've finally ordered a GPS - Garmin 605 - with a City Navigator map in addition to the standard, and hope to also get a Topo or OS Contour map.  While waiting for it to arrive, I'm wondering........

1)  Can I put more than one map on a single micro SD card (if big enough)?

2)  Can I switch between map systems any time without loosing current route and other data on the GPS unit?
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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2010, 11:05:47 am »
Yes and no, to both questions.

With the exception of some recent models, a Garmin GPS can only access one map file, specifically named and specifically located on the SD card.  I'm not sure whether the 605 qualifies as a 'recent model' but I suspect not.  So you could put two maps on but the 2nd one would be of little practical use.  
More sensible to use two SD cards with a different map on each (ie both named the same) - that works.  Swapping the SD card will not affect your routes which are held in memory (even if they were originally loaded on the SD card - once the Route is made active, is is in memory, not on the card).

However you can also combine more than one map (eg City and Topo, or City, Contour map and OSM, whatever) into that single map file on the SD card - and the GPS will be able to display them separately or together, settable in the menus.   This is very easy to do in Garmin's Mapsource software, and a very good reason to have it even if you don't use it for anything else.

[edit: removed]
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Biggsy

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2010, 12:04:25 pm »
Thanks for that.

I think/hope the combination of City + Contour will be good for me.
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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2010, 02:34:21 pm »
City Navigator + SMC Contours are my default map display (I also have Topo and OSM maps in the map file), and I find the combination to be optimal the vast majority of the time.  City Navigator is fairly complete, routes properly and hasn't got too much excess clutter, and the contour overlay provides an idea of the terrain.

OSM is useful to have when you're delving into the murky world of off-road paths (which the Garmin maps don't cover), and has lots of occasionally handy POIs.  The routing is, for the most part, not to be trusted, though.  It also suffers from information overload in urban areas.

Topo is beautiful to look at, but isn't something I use very often for cycling (walking is another matter).  It's sometimes useful if you're in highly scenic areas with more topography than roads, or alongside water (which tends to be rendered at annoyingly low resolution in the other maps).
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frankly frankie

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2010, 05:07:12 pm »
Yes City with SMC contours will work well.
I've got an essay about how to add contours, here

I use Metroguide which is very similar to City but a bit older and no longer updated by Garmin.  As a result it has a total blank where Heathrow Terminal 5 now is.  I sometimes have to visit there and OSM is very complete in that area so I have that OSM tile only, lying under the Metroguide map, and in the GPS I can just disable the single Metroguide tile for Heathrow and have the OSM showing through.  In practice on the road the transition is quite seamless (I don't usually use the routing anyway).
Then SMC contours over all that.
I cycle mostly in France so I also have yet another mapset of contours from a different source, to cover the hilly areas of France and Switzerland.  All these combine into a single map file on the SD card, it all works remarkably well.
There are limits, on the total file size and on the total number of map tiles the file can contain - but you won't hit them, they are very big numbers.
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Biggsy

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 05:41:03 pm »
^ That looks scarily complicated, but very useful indeed.  Thank you :thumbsup:
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Biggsy

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 12:27:12 pm »
Another newbie daft question:

The City Navigator map on SD card: can I copy then sell it on to someone else, or can it only be used with one device only via some serial number trickery or something?
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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 12:54:45 pm »
Garmin tends to lock the maps to the unit, but I'm not sure about when you buy the SD card.

Personally, I've always used the DVD versions, (e.g. 010-10887-00). You can download them to an SD card, but also get the ability to plot routes on your computer using mapsource (and do the contour overlay thing that FF was mentioning above). It costs a bit more, but I use the computer mapping a lot for route plotting and whilst not perfect I prefer to plot routes on the computer using the actual maps I'll have on the bike, rather than importing something that may or may not quite match from bikehike or similar.

fuaran

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 01:00:33 pm »
If you buy City Nav on a SD card, then it is locked to the serial number of the SD card. So you can use the card in as many different devices as you like, but it won't work if you copy it onto a different card.

I'd agree with Matt, the DVD version is better, as you can use it Mapsource for plotting routes etc, plus you can combine it with other maps (eg contours).
Its not really possible to add other maps to the SD card version (at least without complicated hacking).

Martin

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2010, 01:02:48 pm »
+1 to the DVD; you can copy the whole map onto an SD card; you then have the same map on both pc and device;

be aware though that the device will still throw occasional wobblies and decide it's not going to take you down certain roads (must be something to do with the Routing Follow Road options in set up)

Biggsy

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2010, 01:25:40 pm »
Oh bugger, I've already ordered the SD card version.  I was fully expecting to be able to copy it for my own use at least.  I will return for a refund.

Thanks.
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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2010, 08:41:25 pm »
Oh bugger, I've already ordered the SD card version.  I was fully expecting to be able to copy it for my own use at least.  I will return for a refund.

Thanks.

I think it was mentioned in This Parish a while back that pre-loaded SD maps were a money making exercise for Garmin (as very few people use a device in isolation); but there well may be a way of copying the map back over to your pc; after all that's where it originally came from; worth a bit of googling..

Biggsy

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2010, 09:21:07 pm »
Today I received my Edge 605 and SD map, and have already returned the map and ordered a DVD copy as I don't want even more messing about of trying to hack the SD or a pirate version.

I'm finding it difficult enough just to learn the absolute basics as I'm a newbie to GPS altogether.  The hardware is impressive, but the user interface is shit and not at all intuative, in my 'umble opinion, and the operating manual useless.

I'm having a go with a downloaded Open Street Map meanwhile - which in itself seems quite good, as far as these sort of things go.
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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2010, 09:48:21 pm »
The Garmin Forum is an excellent source of knowledge for the 605/705.

Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2010, 09:51:43 pm »
There's also more documentation about maps, uploading routes, etc in the manuals for the software (GTC and Mapsource) than the devices themselves.
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Biggsy

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2010, 05:37:19 pm »
Sorry for my grumpy post above.  Steep learning curve and all that.  I've had more of a go today and am getting more into it.

I'm disappointed though that I don't seem to be able to program a route directly into the unit without having to use a computer.  I'm thinking of times when I'm out in the field but don't necessarily want to follow an auto route or have a route planned in advance.  Can't waypoints be joined up?
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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2010, 06:11:27 pm »
On-the-bike route plotting is a serious weak point.
I've had it recommend 80km routes where I know I can do it in 25km. It's also a good reason for tying down the route by putting in multiple route points when plotting on the computer. They are quirky - but I wouldn't be without mine!

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2010, 10:59:01 pm »
Yes City with SMC contours will work well.
I've got an essay about how to add contours, here

Thanks for that - I spend ages trying to work out how to do that with Mapsource, I've got no idea how you found all that out but it worked perfectly! :thumbsup:
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Biggsy

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2010, 10:53:29 am »
Done it!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I had to use MapsetToolkit 1.77 rather than 1.50.
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frankly frankie

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2010, 01:47:55 pm »
Yes there seems to be issues with matching the version of MSTK and the version of cGpsmapper, best to download both at the same time I find (but I also keep the installers for older versions that I know will work).

The SMC instructions for their own 'simpler' way of installing the contours contains a typo I think, which leads to their registry hack file referencing a non-existent directory - easy to fix once you've sussed it, but frustrating if you don't.
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fuaran

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2010, 03:26:19 pm »
You don't need to use cgpsmapper for that, you can just use the "install" option in MapSetToolKit, which will add the relevant registry entries for Mapsource.

Though I'm thinking it wouldn't be too hard to make a proper installer system for the maps, which would be much easier to use. I might have a go at making something for this.

Biggsy

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2010, 05:32:04 pm »
The TYP editor is not working for me (or I don't understand how to use it) when I try to edit Frankie's 13100131.typ.  The file is not being altered after clicking "Save" on any line.  It's not read-only.

I've tried it with Chrome and Firefox.  (IE was no good at all).
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fuaran

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Re: Newbie daft question...
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2010, 07:10:56 pm »
OK, proper installer for adding the contours to Mapsource available here:
http://osmalba.org/garmin/contours_v2_mapsource.exe
96MB, includes contours for all of UK and Ireland.

Just download and run it, pick the folder to install it in. Then it should be available to view in Mapsource.
No need to use any additional software like MapSetToolKit etc.