Author Topic: Trolling from the Guardian  (Read 14350 times)

Martin

  • Give me bas relief
    • WWW
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2010, 03:19:19 pm »
If we have a greater rate of head injury is it because we ride faster than the laid back Dutch or because we're more likely to be hit by something moving quickly which then imparts momentum to the unfortunate cyclist? If they have a greater rate of head injury is it because they are all going slowly on cycle paths without helmets, which then shows that cycle paths are a bad idea because they "cause" head injury, or because our higher speed accidents give different kinds of injury?

I think we should have our own version of Just a Minute;

you have to write a paragraph pro or anti helmet use without using the words

Australia
Amsterdam
Accident and Emergency Consultant
Saved
Life
cyclehemets.org
85%

 ;D

Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2010, 03:47:38 pm »

Should we campaign for cycle paths to be re-laid with that springy playground tarmac? That's a road safety campaign I could get behind.


Think of the rolling resistance.

The old Legion hand told the recruit, "When things are bad, bleu, try not to make them worse, because it is very likely that they are bad enough already." -- Robert Ruark

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2010, 03:48:37 pm »

Should we campaign for cycle paths to be re-laid with that springy playground tarmac? That's a road safety campaign I could get behind.


Think of the rolling resistance.



You wouldn't need to bother with tyres.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2010, 03:58:07 pm »

Should we campaign for cycle paths to be re-laid with that springy playground tarmac? That's a road safety campaign I could get behind.


Think of the rolling resistance.


Quite, so many benefits:
 - the health benefits of cycling would be even greater due to the extra time / effort taken
 - no one would be going too fast, so shared use facilities would become a joy to use for all
 - the combination of reduced speed and bouncy surface would reduce injuries of all sorts so no need to introduce mandatory body armour legislation
...

Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2010, 04:03:31 pm »
Darn, beaten to it:
Quote
HoldFast Level Crossings Ltd has already reused over 10 million tyres to surface level crossings; it has installed blocks made from tyres in about 3,000 of the UK's 8,000-plus level crossings. Now the company is branching out into highways. The rubber roads, which are being trialled, can be laid along old railway tracks. Each mile of road will use over 350,000 tyres and cost £1.4m per mile, compared to the average road building costs of over £20m per mile. The shock-absorbing properties of rubber are an added safety factor and the roads are durable and easy to maintain.
from the indie. Maybe the roads really are softer over there!

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2010, 05:04:08 pm »
What I was hoping to do was lead people to ask themselves why people on the mainland don't wear helmets and come to the obvious conclusion, which is that they don't feel themselves to be in danger. I was trying to steer the discussion away from: cycling is dangerous so you must protect yourself to: the way some people drive threatens cyclists so something should be done about that.

Between the Disney abattoir and the chemical refinery

Martin

  • Give me bas relief
    • WWW
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2010, 05:51:47 pm »
What I was hoping to do was lead people to ask themselves why people on the mainland don't wear helmets and come to the obvious conclusion, which is that they don't feel themselves to be in danger. I was trying to steer the discussion away from: cycling is dangerous so you must protect yourself to: the way some people drive threatens cyclists so something should be done about that.

fair enough (and I believe the US leads the UK in helmet use)

FWIW if you count me as a statistic; none of my mumble accidents some of which involved hitting my helmeted head involved any other vehicle

(I know I only had those accidents because I was wearing one though so that's OK  ;))

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2010, 06:00:25 pm »
Fallen off my bike several times hard enough to wish I hadn't, injured badly enough to prevent me riding a couple of times. My worst head injury was while driving.

Care to guess if I was wearing a helmet?

Care to guess if anyone at the hospital asked me about my helmet?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Martin

  • Give me bas relief
    • WWW
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2010, 06:28:03 pm »
Fallen off my bike several times hard enough to wish I hadn't, injured badly enough to prevent me riding a couple of times. My worst head injury was while driving.

Care to guess if I was wearing a helmet?

Care to guess if anyone at the hospital asked me about my helmet?

with respect Matt what's that got to do with the price of cod? or even the OP ???

I was agreeing with Rob that the emphasis on cycle accidents needs to be put on the role motorists play in many of them rather than what the cyclist had on his or her head at the time; but also that there are situations where shit happens which is why some cyclists use their personal choice to wear one

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2010, 06:55:54 pm »
So why exactly did you post your anecdote? I'm sure you have more interesting cycling tales you could have shared with us!


But surely my point was bleedin obvious - driving has proven more dangerous to ME than cycling, and yet noone hassles me to wear protection inside my car. Or writes in The Guardian to do so.

[Dimly remembered stat - 60% of car fatalities are head-related. Why else would racing drivers wear such unpleasant head-gear?]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Martin

  • Give me bas relief
    • WWW
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2010, 08:40:50 pm »
So why exactly did you post your anecdote? I'm sure you have more interesting cycling tales you could have shared with us!


But surely my point was bleedin obvious - driving has proven more dangerous to ME than cycling, and yet noone hassles me to wear protection inside my car. Or writes in The Guardian to do so.

[Dimly remembered stat - 60% of car fatalities are head-related. Why else would racing drivers wear such unpleasant head-gear?]

I posted it to make the point that not all cycling injuries (some of which are caused / exacerbated / lessened by helmet wearing * delete as appropriate) are caused by bad driving and some just happen;

out of interest when was the last time a car driver hit his / her head on the road as a result of a car accident (apart from when his / her head had a car on top of it?)

I'll freely argue until the cows come home about helmets because tbh I enjoy it! and that's because like all the other people I argue with I'm 100% right  ;)

and I also like to see people frothing at the mouth about other people wearing /not wearing a piece of polystyrene on their head

I would also like to suggest a new board on this forum;

The Dojo

any helmet thread (or POABI for that matter) that starts to go bad (ie all of them) can get sent there and we can can continue to verbally beat the s**t out of each other while everyone else just adds it to their Ignore Boards list;

simples  :thumbsup:


Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2010, 08:49:59 pm »
I'll freely argue until the cows come home about helmets because tbh I enjoy it! and that's because like all the other people I argue with I'm 100% right  ;)

and I also like to see people frothing at the mouth about other people wearing /not wearing a piece of polystyrene on their head

 ;D ;D ;D

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2010, 09:01:32 pm »
What I was hoping to do was lead people to ask themselves why people on the mainland don't wear helmets and come to the obvious conclusion, which is that they don't feel themselves to be in danger. I was trying to steer the discussion away from: cycling is dangerous so you must protect yourself to: the way some people drive threatens cyclists so something should be done about that.

"Why do you wear that?"
"Because cycling is dangerous!"
"Why is it dangerous?"
"Because you're there making it dangerous!"
"Why am I ... oh, hang on. Crap."

..or equally likely, "well it's not my fault, I can't be responsible for everyone you know and if we didn't go at a decent speed the world would grind to a halt and anyway YOU DO'T EVEN PAY ROAD TAX AND SPEED CAMERAS ARE A BILDERBERG LIZARD CONSPIRACY TO CONTROL US ALL!"
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2010, 09:05:29 pm »
Actually, speed cameras are a stealth tax on the motorist - they're only there to raise revenue.

That's why the Government have stopped funding them to save money.

Go on, post that on the SS forum and watch their brains melt  ;D
Never tell me the odds.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2010, 12:33:35 pm »
But surely my point was bleedin obvious - driving has proven more dangerous to ME than cycling, and yet noone hassles me to wear protection inside my car. Or writes in The Guardian to do so.

[Dimly remembered stat - 60% of car fatalities are head-related. Why else would racing drivers wear such unpleasant head-gear?]


out of interest when was the last time a car driver hit his / her head on the road as a result of a car accident (apart from when his / her head had a car on top of it?)

Straight answer: probably only happens to drivers not wearing seatbelts, or in convertibles.
But what's the relevance of this?

Quote
and I also like to see people frothing at the mouth about other people wearing /not wearing a piece of polystyrene on their head

Ah, that old tactic:
You care enough to keep posting the same thing on multiple topics, but you're too cool to froth at the mouth like the people who disagree with you. Apparently ...

I have no problem with what you wear, but you seem to have forgotten that the topic started with someone telling others what to wear. Which is what we are complaining about . Keep up!

Has anyone here (or in the universe) told you to NOT wear a helmet? How about in the national press? Hmm?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Cudzoziemiec

  • Dormant but requires tea
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2010, 01:02:48 pm »
Darn, beaten to it:
Quote
HoldFast Level Crossings Ltd has already reused over 10 million tyres to surface level crossings; it has installed blocks made from tyres in about 3,000 of the UK's 8,000-plus level crossings. Now the company is branching out into highways. The rubber roads, which are being trialled, can be laid along old railway tracks. Each mile of road will use over 350,000 tyres and cost £1.4m per mile, compared to the average road building costs of over £20m per mile. The shock-absorbing properties of rubber are an added safety factor and the roads are durable and easy to maintain.
from the indie. Maybe the roads really are softer over there!
I've seen those level crossings in Poland, too. Meanwhile in India some roads are made of recycled plastic bottles. This is A Good Thing, but the roads are not noticeably softer than normal ones.
At some point in the ride, you might find yourself in Osaka with Spanish speakers where you had expected Edinburgh talking Greek. This does not mean you are lost, or even off route.

Martin

  • Give me bas relief
    • WWW
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2010, 08:16:02 am »
Matt;sorry can't quote properly on this pc but to answer your three points;

1. You suggest that a polstyerene helmet is more use in a car than on  cycle;

balls! in a car you are protected by a steel roof; polystyrene helmets are designeycle to protect against a fall from a cycle and an impact with  road kerb and possibly slow movin or stationary vehicle. Sure head injuries are common in car accidents but that is the speed not what you hit.

2. did I ever suggest you were frothing at the mouth? yes I will keep posting about this topic because I think it needs addressing and don't go along with the party line.

3. You may not care what I wear but people who drag out the silent vote card definitely do; and by doing so are trying to send helmet wearers on a guilt trip; to any of you I say Swivel

Clandy

Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2010, 08:26:15 am »
Matt;sorry can't quote properly on this pc but to answer your three points;

1. You suggest that a polstyerene helmet is more use in a car than on  cycle;

balls! in a car you are protected by a steel roof; polystyrene helmets are designeycle to protect against a fall from a cycle and an impact with  road kerb and possibly slow movin or stationary vehicle. Sure head injuries are common in car accidents but that is the speed not what you hit.

and while under that steel roof what protects your head from the other occupants, windows, steering wheel, door pillars etc. in the event of an impact?

Martin

  • Give me bas relief
    • WWW
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2010, 10:30:31 am »
padded pillars, airbags, headrests; seatbelts, laminated glass, padded steering wheels SIPS etc. Don't think my bike has any of them.

are you seriously suggesting that a polystyrene helmet woud protect anybody in a car impact given the speeds involved? come on  it's a rubbish argument; go and find some more proper evidence.

Charlotte

  • Dissolute libertine
  • Here's to ol' D.H. Lawrence...
    • charlottebarnes.co.uk
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2010, 10:52:09 am »
Commercial, Editorial and PR Photographer - www.charlottebarnes.co.uk

Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2010, 12:00:05 pm »
You're more likely to get a head injury in a pub than on a bike.

I'll support compulsory helmets when they are made mandatory for Wetherspods customers.

 

itsbruce

  • Lavender Bike Menace
Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #46 on: August 08, 2010, 12:12:48 pm »
are you seriously suggesting that a polystyrene helmet woud protect anybody in a car impact given the speeds involved? come on  it's a rubbish argument; go and find some more proper evidence.


I know I shouldn't get involved in this, but I don't suppose it's worth pointing out that you are the one who brought up polystyrene helmets for drivers.  Matt probably had more substantial headger in mind.

But I don't expect any reason to stand up to this:

Quote
You may not care what I wear but people who drag out the silent vote card definitely do; and by doing so are trying to send helmet wearers on a guilt trip; to any of you I say Swivel

So you like marmite, but if anybody who doesn't like marmite objects to it being made the only choice of toast topping, you take it as a personal attack.  Really, life is too short.
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked: Allen Ginsberg
The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads: Jeff Hammerbacher

Clandy

Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2010, 12:19:06 pm »


are you seriously suggesting that a polystyrene helmet woud protect anybody in a car impact given the speeds involved? come on  it's a rubbish argument; go and find some more proper evidence.


Then what makes you think a polystyrene helmet would protect anybody outside that car, given the speeds involved?

Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2010, 12:44:22 pm »

I know I shouldn't get involved in this, but I don't suppose it's worth pointing out that you are the one who brought up polystyrene helmets for drivers.  Matt probably had more substantial headger in mind.

Yes, along with a fireproof suit, given all that combustible stuff inside a car.
The point seems to be that where most cyclists choose not to dress up for extreme downhill mountain biking with kevlar suits and full face helmets. Or even as a racing cyclist with just a cycle helmet. Most people nipping to the shops or to work on their bike are more akin to mum doing the school run and shopping and not like Lewis Hamilton or a rally driver. Strangely, nobody seems to be pressuring car drivers to wear a motorsports helmet. No government campaign and people even laugh if you suggest they wear a motorsport helmet. I'd argue that it's non helmet wearing cyclists that are made to feel guilty and wrong.

I've nothing against anyone wearing a lid. Just bought myself a new one in fact. It won't get worn very much and I only bought it so that I can do a ride which requires one by the ruulz (and because my old one has the 15 year old sweaty remnants of about 50,000 miles :sick:)
These new ones are much more comfortable to wear and a much better fit with the ratchet thing that you tighten around your bonce than the horrible thing I bought in the mid 1990s.
I still won't use it though, except for off roading.


PS anyone want to buy a slightly dented Bell cycle helmet. It's metallic blue and purple (looks like an Easter Egg) I'll be honest, it feels tepid and damp when you put it on your head and isn't very nice to wear. It only has some mildew on it.

Any offers?

Clandy

Re: Trolling from the Guardian
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2010, 12:54:34 pm »
I'll be honest, it feels tepid and damp when you put it on your head and isn't very nice to wear. It only has some mildew on it.

Any offers?

You could mail it to Will Gosling asking him if he would wear such a thing if it was supplied for use with bike hire schemes, pointing out its condition as an example of what riders might be expected to put on their heads...