Author Topic: + size women want their own clothing range designed  (Read 50999 times)

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #100 on: 14 August, 2010, 10:47:50 pm »
I think there are two trends here, and waffles may be at the intersection. One is a trend to increasing waists and weights, the other to increasing public abuse of random private persons. The first is medically unfortunate, but the second is nastiness.
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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #101 on: 14 August, 2010, 10:50:21 pm »

Shouldn't we be accepting that it's ok for people to be anything as long as they're not hurting someone else?

+1

+2



Unfortunately 'size-bashing' seems to be socially acceptable at both ends of the scale.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #102 on: 14 August, 2010, 10:52:35 pm »
I think there's quite a lot here to suggest that there should be a return to made-to-measure clothing instead of off-the-peg. There would be economic benefits - think of all the tailors required! And none of it offshoreable! - and stylish ones - everyone would be wearing something unique all the time.
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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #103 on: 14 August, 2010, 10:56:39 pm »
I think there's quite a lot here to suggest that there should be a return to made-to-measure clothing instead of off-the-peg.

Until the explosion in popularity of 'disposable fashion' in the 1960s many people either made their own clothes or used a dressmaker. Prior to the early 1900s it was the only option.

And I bet they fitted!
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hellymedic

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #104 on: 14 August, 2010, 10:58:51 pm »
Marilyn Monroe was a size 16 because her lovely, voluptuous bust was too big for a 36" top. She was slim-waisted, as were many of that era.
It was fairly common to make one's own clothes then, so accommodating variations in size and shape was possibly easier.
Made to measure clothing is very unusual nowadays, which may exacerbate the problem of dressing non-stock sized/shaped women.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #105 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:01:11 pm »
Still see traditional tailors in Poland, though they're less popular than they used to be - probably because they can't compete on price with the cheapest mass-produced stuff, and because people don't want to wait - they're not going to disappear completely, especially for women's dresses. In fact, one of Mrs C's uncles was a tailor.
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hellymedic

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #106 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:02:24 pm »
OOOooh look! Three of us posting the same thoughts simultaneously!

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #107 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:04:29 pm »
Marilyn Monroe was a size 16 because her lovely, voluptuous bust was too big for a 36" top.

According to my 1950s sewing patterns, 36" bust was a size 16. According to M&S, a 16 now is just under 40" bust.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #108 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:07:28 pm »
OOOooh look! Three of us posting the same thoughts simultaneously!
So everyone's agreed that Marilyn Monroe had a lovely, voluptous bust?  ;D
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Biggsy

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #109 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:09:00 pm »
I am not suggesting we ridicule all fat people but we do seem to gradually be accepting that it is okay to be fatter.

Shouldn't we be accepting that it's ok for people to be anything as long as they're not hurting someone else?

Absolutely, but it does hurt loved ones when the person is not able to function as well, or live as long, as they would otherwise.  Of course a fat person isn't necessarily unfit, just that there's an increased likelyhood if them being unfit.  We are generalising here, after all.

I think there are two trends here, and waffles may be at the intersection. One is a trend to increasing waists and weights, the other to increasing public abuse of random private persons. The first is medically unfortunate, but the second is nastiness.

Is it increasing?  Seems to me it's becoming more socially unacceptable.  It's difficult to even discuss the subject of obesity without causing offence.  Even the 'o' word sounds bad.

It's worse for skinny people in a way.  It's more acceptable to make fun of them, yet it's just as offensive.  And it's just as embarrassing to be skinny.  Swimming would be really good for me, but I don't do it because I'm embarrassed about my body.
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hellymedic

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #110 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:14:00 pm »
I sit corrected.

As a teenager, I had a small waist (23-24") but wore siize 14 to fit my hips.
It is ridiculous that nearly forty years on, I should be little more than an M&S 14 though I'm much fatter than the 7 stone teen of 1972.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #111 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:22:09 pm »
[Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on Today at 10:47:50 PM]
I think there are two trends here, and waffles may be at the intersection. One is a trend to increasing waists and weights, the other to increasing public abuse of random private persons. The first is medically unfortunate, but the second is nastiness.
Is it increasing?  Seems to me it's becoming more socially unacceptable.  It's difficult to even discuss the subject of obesity without causing offence.  Even the 'o' word sounds bad.
[/quote]
Is what increasing? I'm confused as to what you're asking about.

I was saying that the number of overweight people is generally increasing, and that abuse of strangers - for any reason - is also increasing. So, for instance, a couple of decades ago people might have had the same thoughts about the obese and made "fatty" jokes, but were unlikely to shout at them in the street. I don't say the two trends are connected, but that overweight people are simply another easy target.
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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #112 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:22:24 pm »
It's worse for skinny people in a way.  It's more acceptable to make fun of them, yet it's just as offensive.  And it's just as embarrassing to be skinny.  Swimming would be really good for me, but I don't do it because I'm embarrassed about my body.

Ah but it could be argued skinny people bring that on themselves just as much as larger people.

If they should just "calories in < calories out" then all a skinny person needs to do is calories in > calories out plus some weights and if they choose not to then that's their own choice (and so we chould feel just as free to mock skinny people too)!  ::-)

P.S. I'm not having a go at you here Biggsy, just in general at the people that think mocking anyone is acceptable.
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hellymedic

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #113 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:22:29 pm »
While I accept that one anecdote does not data make, I remember when I went to Woolworth's with my late grandmother and she used the scales.
I was six, she was sixty years older.
She weighed 14 stone but was a big lady - 5'9" on her passport.
My grandmother lived to 101 years.

Being plump may not shorten your life if you have no other health problem.
Morbid obesity is a different matter.

wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #114 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:29:15 pm »

Shouldn't we be accepting that it's ok for people to be anything as long as they're not hurting someone else?

+1

+2



Unfortunately 'size-bashing' seems to be socially acceptable at both ends of the scale.

Aye.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #115 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:29:46 pm »
While I accept that one anecdote does not data make, I remember when I went to Woolworth's with my late grandmother and she used the scales.
I was six, she was sixty years older.
She weighed 14 stone but was a big lady - 5'9" on her passport.
My grandmother lived to 101 years.

Being plump may not shorten your life if you have no other health problem.
Morbid obesity is a different matter.
Probably true, but your grandmother was (I guess) simply a large lady. That's different from the common kind of overweight now which is a result of unhealthy diet and sedentary lifestyle (and which in turn is different from overweight resulting from a metabolic problem or virus etc).
Put it another way - your grandmother may not have been overweight, just large.
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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #116 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:34:49 pm »
As a teenager, I had a small waist (23-24") but wore siize 14 to fit my hips.
It is ridiculous that nearly forty years on, I should be little more than an M&S 14 though I'm much fatter than the 7 stone teen of 1972.

It is ridiculous. Barking mad in fact.  I recently threw out a size 8 shirt that I bought a few years ago because it was too small. The replacement one is a size 6.  ::-)

This article from 1996 discusses the issue of vanity sizing even then. American measurements, so it all sounds a bit alarming at first!

After a bit of googling, I then found this article. I'll admit I was somewhat concerned by the gentleman who decided that if the possibility of being booted off a flight because there weren't enough seatbelt extenders to go round was too embarrassing to endure, his solution was to carry his own seatbelt extender, rather than to address the fact he was too large for the standard seatbelt.

But I did like the sentiment at the end:

Quote
"Ninety percent of the folks here have tried everything to be thin," says one male customer who's come to the Butterfly after reading about it on the Web. "At some point you've just got to live."
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hellymedic

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #117 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:38:06 pm »
14 stone is heavy, even for a  tall lady.  I think it would have given her a BMI of 29.

wafflycat

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #118 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:40:21 pm »

It is ridiculous. Barking mad in fact.  I recently threw out a size 8 shirt that I bought a few years ago because it was too small. The replacement one is a size 6.  ::-)


Then add in the utter lack of any correlation of sizing between brands...


Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #119 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:43:12 pm »

It is ridiculous. Barking mad in fact.  I recently threw out a size 8 shirt that I bought a few years ago because it was too small. The replacement one is a size 6.  ::-)


Then add in the utter lack of any correlation of sizing between brands...



Quite! I have clothes from size 6 to 12. I'm fairly certain my body doesn't magically morph between shops...
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #120 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:46:39 pm »
It's not just adults. My son (age 6) is sleeping in a pyjama top labelled age 2-3, while some other clothes of his are age 8 or 9.
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CrinklyLion

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #121 on: 14 August, 2010, 11:51:50 pm »
I think that if you aren't a fat woman, you might not appreciate how hard it is to buy clothes for a fat woman (I don't know if the same is true for men, as I'm not one!).  Jeans, for example.  Apparently most people go and try to buy a pair of jeans that they like.  I'm a little unfamiliar with the concept myself - I go to Evans, I find the one pair of jeans that they have that fastens up and then I either get my mum to further shorten the shortest length ones or roll them up a bit.  There is no choice involved.

Or take the example of swimming costumes.  I'm quite an expert at buying fat bird cossies - at one point I used to swim/aquafit 8 or 9 times a week and bought a swimming costume roughly every 6 weeks.

All of the major brands of sports costumes (speedo, arena, TYR etc) stop at something around a size 16 - occasionally an 18 if you're really lucky.  Zoggs sometimes do a bit better, I've had the odd 20-ish equivalent by them.  Most sports shops will have at most one or two styles in a 16 and either the same or nothing at all in an 18.  And there's an assumption that wider=taller, so even when I fitted width-wise into the occasional size 18 costume that I found they tended to be much too long in the body.

Some high street shops will sometimes have some size 20 or 22 costumes.  I've managed to find the odd one at M&S, but have never found a cossie to fit in Debenhams for example.  

The fat bird shops like Evans will usually have 2 or 3 styles of costume available for about 3 months of the year.  They will probably have a very low V-neck, which is a bit dangerous if you like aquafit classes, and usually will be in neon colours, or glittery, or leapordskin, or covered in diamante.  If you manage to find one that looks like you are actually meant to get it wet I would predict that it will wear out within a month or regular actual swimming - if not sooner.  My record was about 6 swims - I made them give me my money back for that one.

There is, of course, the mail order option.  In the last 8 years I've probably bought about a dozen swimming costumes via mail order, of which precisely one fitted well enough (once I'd tied big knots in the shoulder straps to shorten it) for me to wear in a pool.  The others were all the wrong shape and I've given up on mail order.

Thanks heavens for BHS.  They have cossies up to a size 22, sometimes a 24, and do them in two different lengths.  They are reasonably CrinklyLion-shaped, so whatever i've been (from a 24 down to an 18 at my skinniest) they fit well enough to be useable.  They usually have quite a wide range, but nearly every design is actually a lounging by the pool costume, rather than a swimming costume.  For the last 3 or 4 years they haven't been producing the design in their 'sports' range that I really liked, so I've been buying the next best one.  I greatly object to those cossies that have built-in padded foam 'boob' shaped bits - the 'fashion' ones nearly all do.  They aren't boob shaped, they are weirdly triangular and I already have more than enough boobs of my own to fill the chest area of my swimming costume thank you very much, there just isn't space for 4 tits in there.  

There is precisely one swimming costume in their range that is available in my size and doesn't have built-in boobs.  They cost nearly as much as a 'proper' sports costume, and signifantly more than one from JJB etc.  They wear out significantly quicker - when I was a bit thinner and could actually wear proper sports costumes I couldn't believe how long they lasted.  If I'm very very very lucky I might have a choice of two colour schemes, one of which will undoubtably involve pink.  And when they have them in I buy 3 at a time, because there's several months of the year that they will have no stock.

Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #122 on: 15 August, 2010, 12:01:21 am »
Jeans, for example.  Apparently most people go and try to buy a pair of jeans that they like.  I'm a little unfamiliar with the concept myself...

It's no easier if you're a size 10 with hips and a waist!

The majority of designers are gay men, and they proportion women's clothes accordingly. Apparently a 'curve' is an alien concept...


And you shouldn't have to make do with whatever you can get your paws on. You should have as much choice as someone who is a 12 or 14.
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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #123 on: 15 August, 2010, 12:02:29 am »
I am not suggesting we ridicule all fat people but we do seem to gradually be accepting that it is okay to be fatter.


Shouldn't we be accepting that it's ok for people to be anything as long as they're not hurting someone else?

I'd suggest that it's OK for people to be anything as long as they're not adversely affecting someone else.

Yes, there are people who have medical conditions which cause excess weight gain, or which make it particularly difficult to lose weight, but these are relatively few and far between.  I'm afraid in the majority of cases it is the excess weight that causes the health problems, not the other way round, and the obesity is linked purely to excess calorie intake or a lack of exercise.

And I'm afraid that clinically obese people do adversely affect other people.  Whilst it is nice to think that we should allow everyone to live their lives as they wish, we have to remember that 'no man is an island' and there is such a thing as society.  Obesity and its related impacts cost the NHS and social services billions each year. Obesity and obesity related health issues will soon overtake smoking as the primary cause of disability and preventable deaths in the UK.  

The extra demands on the NHS and social servies means that it adversely impacts upon the taxpayer - you and me.  At least smokers pay into the Treasury much, much more than they eventually cost the NHS, etc.

I'm a fat bugger.  I've really put on weight after spending several years on steroids - but I have to admit that the reason the weight is still on is that I eat too much, drink too much and don't get enough exercise.

I struggle to lose weight and know how soul-destroying it can be.  So I empathise and sympathise with those who find it difficult.  But I also get annoyed when people try to suggest that we should 'normalise' obesity - it doesn't do anyone any favours.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: + size women want their own clothing range designed
« Reply #124 on: 15 August, 2010, 12:03:07 am »
I reckon, but this is only a reckon, that men don't vary in shape so much as women, so it's more just a question of bigger or smaller, therefore with fewer variables to go wrong it's easier to fit most men.
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