Author Topic: Dave Yates framebuilding course  (Read 24853 times)

GrahamG

  • Babies bugger bicycling
Dave Yates framebuilding course
« on: 29 October, 2010, 09:00:46 am »
Anyone here ever been on it or know anyone that did? I'd be interested to get any anecdotal feedback or hints and tips as I've booked my other half on it for next year as a wedding present (she's very handy and loved her metalwork at college!).
Brummie in exile (may it forever be so)

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #1 on: 29 October, 2010, 09:11:57 am »
Not done one but I've met Dave a few times. Should be a cracking time..
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #2 on: 29 October, 2010, 09:15:31 am »
Anyone here ever been on it or know anyone that did? I'd be interested to get any anecdotal feedback or hints and tips as I've booked my other half on it for next year as a wedding present (she's very handy and loved her metalwork at college!).

That's a conversation I've never considered having...

Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #3 on: 29 October, 2010, 09:27:02 am »
Anyone here ever been on it or know anyone that did? I'd be interested to get any anecdotal feedback or hints and tips as I've booked my other half on it for next year as a wedding present (she's very handy and loved her metalwork at college!).

That's a conversation I've never considered having...

Indeed. Has to be said, if she's happy with that as a present, you appear to have done very well!

Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #4 on: 29 October, 2010, 09:30:52 am »
I'm pretty sure alexb has, and doubtless he'll be along shortly.....  :)

GrahamG

  • Babies bugger bicycling
Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #5 on: 29 October, 2010, 09:54:27 am »
Anyone here ever been on it or know anyone that did? I'd be interested to get any anecdotal feedback or hints and tips as I've booked my other half on it for next year as a wedding present (she's very handy and loved her metalwork at college!).

That's a conversation I've never considered having...

Indeed. Has to be said, if she's happy with that as a present, you appear to have done very well!

I think so! She was even happy wild camping and cooking all our own food on tour for 12 weeks so I'm not taking it for granted. She loves the aesthetics of steel tubing - can't look at any other bike when mooching the shops - loved doing metalwork, did furniture design and cabinet making at uni (has more tools than me as a result!) and absolutely loved the idea when I mentioned it a year or two ago so I'm hoping she'll be over the moon.
Brummie in exile (may it forever be so)

Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #6 on: 29 October, 2010, 09:56:00 am »
I've done it. Can't recommend it highly enough. He's a lovely bloke and the course is excellent.
If you are London based then I'd suggest we meet up and have a chat, there's a lot you need to plan in advance to get the best from the course.

If not, then I'll start laying it out in this thread.

My bike is in the gallery somewhere.

GrahamG

  • Babies bugger bicycling
Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #7 on: 29 October, 2010, 10:01:18 am »
Superb - we're over in Bristol but perhaps nearer the time (we're marrying in March and the booking is for end of June), we can buy you lunch and a pint or two whilst in the smoke on a visit? She'll probably want to be uber-prepared.
Brummie in exile (may it forever be so)

Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #8 on: 29 October, 2010, 10:01:58 am »
This thread on lfgss summarises loads of good information and saves me from having to retype everything I previously said.

Dave Yates framebuilding course - London Fixed-gear and Single-speed

Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #9 on: 29 October, 2010, 10:07:21 am »
My comment is reproduced here:
I've done the course and built a frame there.
Here's my advice - First off, treat it as a once in a lifetime thing. Unless you have space and access to a full workshop you will not be able to do it again. Accept that and you'll be fine.
Since you treat it as a once in a lifetime thing build something unique and for yourself.
Don't build something you can go out and buy anyway - so don't sit down and build a lugged fixed gear frame - you'll end up paired up with someone building something amazing an end up kicking yourself for being so unimaginative.
Do research frame building obsessively for a year or so beforehand. Haunt the frame building forums, ask stupid questions, read suzie Jacksons blog, read allt he construction blogs you can find, become an obsessive fan of Steve Garro, Richard Sachs, Sacha White, Robin Mather and their ilk!
Know your lugs and fittings, make absolutely certain months in advance that you know exactly what you are going to build and where every fitting is going to go -detail is everything. There's no point in turning up and then realising that you had forgotten to get Dave to order the stainless bottle cage reinfocing diamonds you'd seen somewhere else...
Dave has various standard tube sets in stock, don't be dogmatic about tubes, but if you want something fancy like an hourglass back end be sure to order it in advance and be prepared to argue with him about using it!
Dave is a fabulous teacher, I hadn't done any brazing since school, but by the end of the second day I was able to filet braze under his supervision. By the end of the fourth day I was doing joints on my own, but still made mistakes - his help in rectifying mistakes is really vital.
If you can, get some practice in with a torch beforehand - take a night class in jewellery making for example, that will teach you a lot about heat control.

It will cost you a lot of money and you have 4 days to build the frame - it's just enough time. You'll end up doing the fine finishing work at home.
The costs come down to this - travel to Lincolnshire (not especially cheap) - daily travel to the workshop (free if you take a bike, but logistically taking a bike, plus clothing etc. can be tricky - not to mention taking a famre and forks home at the end as well). There are no buses and it's a long walk from the nearest accommodation so you'll either need a car or two taxi fares a day!
I stayed in the local pub, it's a dump and overpriced, but it was comfortable enough.
I ate out in the evenings, this adds up. At lunchtimes I made sandwiches and ate them at the end of the runway watching the jets take off.

Conclusions: Fantastic experience, makes you realise how challenging making a frame actually is.
Cost: Seriously expensive, you could have Robin Mather build you something incredible for the same money with about the same wait time. I'd guess course cost (at whatever it is now) + materials (allow £350-400); accommodation (allow £150-200); food (allow £150); travel (???)
You can get value for money if you build something uber blingy. It doesn't get much more expensive to do something really pimpy. The base tube prices don't go up much for example (about £50-80 difference from memory).

Alternatives? There is a course in the USA at the UBI which by the time you've done the numbers is probably about the same price.

GrahamG

  • Babies bugger bicycling
Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #10 on: 29 October, 2010, 10:46:47 am »
alex - very much appreciated, thanks.
Brummie in exile (may it forever be so)

GrahamG

  • Babies bugger bicycling
Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #11 on: 29 October, 2010, 11:41:56 am »
Brummie in exile (may it forever be so)

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #12 on: 29 October, 2010, 12:31:00 pm »
*rubs thighs* </Vic>
Getting there...

Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #13 on: 05 November, 2010, 07:39:07 pm »
What a great present. I did Dave's course two years ago.
The guy is a gent. Good fun and a talented builder/instructor.

I built a rough stuff touring bike with s&s couplings. The couplings are very expensive and have to be fitted by Dave due to needing to be licensed by the manufacturer to fit them.
I wanted a traditional style. Lugged frame,horizontal top tube, loads of braze ons.

I echo what Alexb said. It's a one off. Build something you can't buy over the counter.

The best bit is riding it knowing you built it. The icing on the cake comes when strangers admire the bike and ask where you bought it.

It was an expensive way to buy a bike, but the enjoyment of building the frame sourcing parts, building wheels and ending up with exactly what I wanted is well worth it in my book.

I hope your intended enjoys the course. How about a maintenence course at the Bike Inn? (also in Lincs) Again thoroughly recommended. That course has paid for it's self more than twice over.

Andy

Pancho

  • لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ
Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #14 on: 05 February, 2011, 07:24:01 pm »
Would it be possible to build a hub gear commuter/tourer/(slow)audaxer on this course?

Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #15 on: 11 February, 2011, 10:03:04 am »
You could literally build anything you like, although he won't do tandems (they take too long).
By day 2 you have a set of forks and the spine of the frame (BB, down tube and head tube) it's pretty incredible how fast you can work once you know what to do. Dave reckons that to be a good commercial builder you need to be able to build three good (off the peg) frames a week!

Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #16 on: 11 February, 2011, 10:22:17 am »
25 years ago I did a Harry Quinn course.  I built a 653 track frame with mudguard clearance, so had no trouble with time over the 4 day course because I did not have a million braze ons to add.  I still have the frame of course, I rode it as recently as 2 days ago.

I second that it comes out expensive if you include the travel and lodging, but what the heck, it is a one off experience of a holiday.

I have met Dave and some people who have attended his course, and the impression I get is that he is an absolutely straightforward gent.  Fortunately for my wallet I do not need another frame.

Pancho

  • لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ
Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #17 on: 11 February, 2011, 04:33:31 pm »
Mrs P has approved my absence from the family home (and a vaguely undefined spend from the family strongbox), should I choose.

Do I really have the ability to design a bike, though?

I reckon that if I spec the big picture items (ie hub gear, flat bars etc) and then spend six months riding my folder to various settings I should be able to come up with a pretty good idea.

Plenty of time to get it right; the courses are fully booked for all of 2011 and most of 2012.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #18 on: 11 February, 2011, 07:38:31 pm »
wondering if i could build a moulton style spaceframe in 4 days.. ::-)  a bit of wishful thinking, i guess

Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #19 on: 11 February, 2011, 08:26:36 pm »
I'd suggest you start haunting both Frame Forum and Velocipede Frame Salon.
Get yourself up to speed on all of the available lugs via CeeWay's website, Henry James website and Llewellyn bicycle's blog and website.
Read Cocconino cycles blog as well for inspiration.

Basically, read everything you can lay your hands on!

Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #20 on: 12 February, 2011, 03:35:09 am »
Get yourself up to speed on all of the available lugs via CeeWay's website, Henry James website and Llewellyn bicycle's blog and website.

OT - VeloYellow and his Llewellyn are in the Llewellyn website gallery (Mont Ventoux and "somewhere in the UK" - actually leaving the Alston control on LEL).  Darryl (Dazza) is a true craftsman and sent photos daily during the build.
@SandyV1 on Twitter http://twitter.com/#!/SandyV1

Nick H.

Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #21 on: 15 February, 2011, 06:46:17 pm »
Shall I post pics from my course? If I do you have to promise not to laugh at my ineptitude. I have the mechanical skills of a penguin.

Pancho

  • لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ
Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #22 on: 15 February, 2011, 06:54:09 pm »
Yes, please.

Nick H.

Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #23 on: 15 February, 2011, 08:48:20 pm »
OK. What I wanted was an ultraversatile comfy fast tourer, for use with 25mm tyres and side-pulls, or 37ish mm with cantis, with derailleurs or Rohloff, and downtube levers. And S&S couplings with the ability to use the inside of the tubes for storage. And with a road or MTB chainset.  And bottle cage mounts all over the place because I wanted to mount luggage in the frame triangle somehow and wanted to keep my options open about how to attach it. Dave immediately got what I was driving at and was fine with all of it. I gave him the frame design that Cyclefit used for my Serotta and he was fine with that too.

I chose 853 just for the sake of indulgence really, and picked the lugs from the Ceeway site. I would have liked more interesting ones but there wasn't time to get custom ones hand cut.  I love these from IF but they're ti.



So here's what was waiting for me on Monday morning at Dave's. It makes you wonder whether you've booked a central-heating engineer's course by mistake. I really didn't think I'd be able to make a frame out of it by Friday unless Dave did most of the work:



Nick H.

Re: Dave Yates framebuilding course
« Reply #24 on: 15 February, 2011, 09:01:59 pm »
As you can see Dave had already fitted the S&S couplings, which are too difficult for course attendees.  The first thing I did was cut slots in the ends of the stays for the dropouts to fit into. Dave showed me how to wield the hacksaw correctly.