Author Topic: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?  (Read 5898 times)

αdαmsκι

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Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« on: November 13, 2010, 08:05:18 pm »
I entered a DIY200 (which had a minimum distance of 202 km) using the online brevet card. The automated email I got back told me I had ~13 hrs & 28 mins (202 km ÷ 15 km/h) to complete the ride, whereas I was expecting 14 hours & 7 mins (202 km ÷ 14.3 km/h). Not that I was planning on using the full quota of time, but I'm still curious if the minimum speed of DIY rides is now 15 km/h or is there an issue with the online brevet card ????
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

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JayP

  • You must be joking
Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2010, 08:34:36 pm »
Good question Adamski. My understanding of the old system was that you could either claim a min speed of 14.3kph or a pro rata over-distance increment - but not both
I sort of assumed that under the new system, where the actual distance ridden can be verified from the track log,  the 14.3kph min speed option would be withdrawn in favour of increments at the rate of 1hour per 15km.
I would really like to know if this is the case. For instance I may have been uncannily fortunate on my DIY 200 last Wed' which took me exactly 13  hours and 28 mins (really) and was 23k over distance!

αdαmsκι

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Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2010, 08:46:35 pm »
I should add that my ride was not a DIY by GPS (which was just as well 'cos I broke my Garmin this morning ::-)!).
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

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Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2010, 09:40:02 pm »
Good question Adamski. My understanding of the old system was that you could either claim a min speed of 14.3kph or a pro rata over-distance increment - but not both

I've had DIYs validated that relied on both.

AFAIK you can have a DIY agreed at 14.3kph of the agreed shortest distance between controls. Unless something has changed recently...
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2010, 10:44:48 pm »
Good question Adamski. My understanding of the old system was that you could either claim a min speed of 14.3kph or a pro rata over-distance increment - but not both

I've had DIYs validated that relied on both.

AFAIK you can have a DIY agreed at 14.3kph of the agreed shortest distance between controls. Unless something has changed recently...
That’s my understanding. When I nailed this down (I thought) a while ago it was 14.3kph up to 699km and you got pro-rata time for the shortest minimum distance possible between controls. So adamski should indeed have got 202 ÷ 14.3.

Of course if you actually ride 215 km because of unfavourable roads etc. on the shortest possible route, you get no extra time.




Martin

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2010, 10:36:42 am »
I hadn't noticed that; did a DIY 100 yesterday and the online brevet card also only allows me 6hrs 40mins which is 15kph; does it give you longer if you enter eg 106 which is the direct shortest distance?

I myself will allow any that are within 14.3 no matter what the pooter says. I have emailed Pete Coates to get it corrected.

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2010, 10:44:43 am »
I hadn't noticed that...

14.3 it is. We'd better ask Pete to alter it.

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2010, 11:23:25 am »
I hadn't noticed that...

14.3 it is. We'd better ask Pete to alter it.
And above 699km it's lower still isn't it? Not that I'm contemplating mind!

DanialW

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2010, 11:45:11 am »
I hadn't noticed that...

14.3 it is. We'd better ask Pete to alter it.
And above 699km it's lower still isn't it? Not that I'm contemplating mind!

Yes, it should be 14.3kph. I've never used 15kph.

As for longer distances, that varies between organisers at the moment. I doubt a DIY from one organiser of, say 1000km, is likely to attract more kudos than that of another, so perhaps they ought to be standardised?

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2010, 11:47:52 am »
I hadn't noticed that...

14.3 it is. We'd better ask Pete to alter it.
And above 699km it's lower still isn't it? Not that I'm contemplating mind!

Above 699km, it's 13.3.
Then above 1299 (I think), it goes down again. It's all in the rules, somewhere...

αdαmsκι

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Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2010, 11:57:51 am »
does it give you longer if you enter eg 106 which is the direct shortest distance?

Yes. My ride had a shortest distance between controls at 202 km and I was given 13 hr & 28 mins, opposed to 13 hrs & 20 mins had 200 km been taken as the distance. (This is taking the average speed at 15 km/h.)
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

https://tyredandhungry.wordpress.com/

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2010, 12:08:07 pm »
I hadn't noticed that...

14.3 it is. We'd better ask Pete to alter it.
And above 699km it's lower still isn't it? Not that I'm contemplating mind!

Yes, it should be 14.3kph. I've never used 15kph.

As for longer distances, that varies between organisers at the moment. I doubt a DIY from one organiser of, say 1000km, is likely to attract more kudos than that of another, so perhaps they ought to be standardised?


A while ago I went to some lengths to clarify this for myself (basically just because I’m a bit pedantic and feel more comfortable when things are tidy!) and I obtained from Andy Uttley the following:
Quote:
up to 699km - 14.3
700 to 1299km - 13.3
1300 to 1899km - 12.0
1900 to 2499km - 10.0
If you go over 2499k it's 200k per day Unquote

I would certainly feel strongly that all DIY organiser/controllers should sing from the same song sheet on this one. Especially if as TG says it's in the Rulebook somewhere. Personally, I’d say the same regarding Permanents but there’s a case I suppose for individual Organisers deciding this because they know best their routes.


Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2010, 12:27:47 pm »
Rulebook reference:-

AUK Regulation 5

Specifically 5.7.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Martin

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2010, 01:57:18 pm »
I apply PP's quoted speeds;

although I'm apparently not allowed to validate anything over 200 so some of the longer ones will go straight to John Ward

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2010, 05:26:24 pm »
I've just changed the min speed on the electronic Brevet - it's now 14.3 rather than 15.

Also handles the slower speeds at longer distances (I think)

I entered a DIY200 (which had a minimum distance of 202 km) using the online brevet card. The automated email I got back told me I had ~13 hrs & 28 mins (202 km ÷ 15 km/h) to complete the ride, whereas I was expecting 14 hours & 7 mins (202 km ÷ 14.3 km/h). Not that I was planning on using the full quota of time, but I'm still curious if the minimum speed of DIY rides is now 15 km/h or is there an issue with the online brevet card ????

I don't think you get a time in the email, it's on the page linked to from the email. If you got a time in the email itself, then let me know, as I've not changed the content of the email.


αdαmsκι

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Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2010, 05:30:26 pm »
I don't think you get a time in the email, it's on the page linked to from the email. If you got a time in the email itself, then let me know, as I've not changed the content of the email.

Oops. You're correct, it was on the webpage that the times appeared.

Thanks for altering the speeds.
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

https://tyredandhungry.wordpress.com/

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2010, 06:16:54 pm »
I hadn't noticed that; did a DIY 100 yesterday and the online brevet card also only allows me 6hrs 40mins which is 15kph; does it give you longer if you enter eg 106 which is the direct shortest distance?

I myself will allow any that are within 14.3 no matter what the pooter says. I have emailed Pete Coates to get it corrected.

Separately to BR rides, aren't 100km DIYs available at just 8kph because they're BPs? I've taken more than 7 hours for a DIY 100 in the past with no problems.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2010, 06:32:29 pm »
Calendar and standard perm BPs often have redused min speeds at the discretion of the organiser. I'm not sure DIY BPs have ever been discussed in this context.

Martin

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2010, 10:16:57 am »
Calendar and standard perm BPs often have redused min speeds at the discretion of the organiser. I'm not sure DIY BPs have ever been discussed in this context.

I'm applying 14.3 to BP's because that's how the validation programme requires it. I've no idea whether they should be relaxed or why they ever were in the first place. If it was up to me I'd reduce them to 12.5 but it's not.

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2010, 10:24:02 am »
Checked the Wayback Machine. Here's what one DIY 100 calendar page entry looked like back in 2007:-

DIY100 perm

8.3kph.

Regulation 7.2 allows a relaxation of the minimum speed for BP events.

The BP LEJOG has a minimum average speed of 3kph (but, obviously, doing it at that speed gets you no points).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Martin

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2010, 10:29:23 am »
OK we (we AUK not we YACF) need a common approach to it before it's relaxed from 14.3

Mr Speaker?

mikewigley

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2010, 10:34:18 am »
The BP LEJOG has a minimum average speed of 3kph (but, obviously, doing it at that speed gets you no points).

Is dying of boredom mentioned on the risk assessment?

Jaded

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Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2010, 11:00:01 am »
Or falling off?
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Re: Has the minimum speed for DIYs changed?
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2010, 11:50:45 am »
It's ~18 days or ~50km a day. That's a nice leisurely LEJOG with plenty of sightseeing. Exactly what the Populaire version should be.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."